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Fish_mojo's avatar
Fish_mojo
Explorer
Jul 23, 2014

In the market for used smaller RV

Comparing used RV's. Wife and I, want to keep smaller for drive-ability, storing at home, and economy. Probably 22-24 foot. Regular B's are just too small. Trying to compare B+ to smaller C's. I'm kind of leaning towards the Phoenix Cruiser, Chinook type rigs. Seem like better build quality and better drive-ability.

any info to share to comparing the two types of RV's? Any recommended brands and features i need?
  • Very excellent write up and informative Ron!

    Thanks for sharing, Brian
  • Fish mojo wrote:
    Great write up Ron. I think you nailed the issues and helped identified what I'm looking for. Your PC is beautiful, and just what we have in mind.

    Finding one at a reasonable price (<$50k) may be another story.....
    Be patient. They are out there <$50k, even out by you.

    The sturdy rear wall system with spare tire compartment and rear storage compartment was introduced in 2004, the whole house 2000 watt inverter with twin batteries was introduced around 2006 as an option but made standard in 2007. The Sanicon waste management system was made standard around 2006. Nothing significant has changed with the house between 2007 and 2014 with exception to the size of the optional slide out. In 2010 they included the fridge in the slide out which opens up the interior much better.
  • Great write up Ron. I think you nailed the issues and helped identified what I'm looking for. Your PC is beautiful, and just what we have in mind.

    Finding one at a reasonable price (<&50k) may be another story.....
  • Fish mojo,

    I know your list, and I think you are on-track. Just keep this in mind.

    Ron

    -----------------------------------

    New, used, or well used, when shopping for any conventional class-C, the most important consideration is how it is constructed. This post outlines construction methods which are most affordable and methods that cost more, but are built to hold up much better to the elements and the punishment of road motion.

    Some motor home manufactures offer different levels of quality through their various model lines. Instead of providing a list of brands to consider, it is best to identify what "Better" is.

    When shopping for a motor home, don't get distracted with what I call "Eye Candy" or "Square Footage". You want to pay close attention to how the house is constructed. Water infiltration is the number one killer of motor homes, rotting them away long before anything is worn out. Once water gets inside, it is like termites. By the time you realize there is a problem, a lot of damage has already occurred. Also consider that mold & mildew can grow inside the walls which then you have a health hazard. My advise focuses on identifying a reliably well sealed motor home.

    #1 BEST (Very Expensive, Can Be 1.75 to 2 times the cost of Second Best)
    NO structural seam work. The brand Coach House is a fine example. It is seamless, made from a mold. The only places where water can leak is cutouts for windows, entry door, roof-top vents & a/c unit, storage compartments & maintenance access, all of which are in areas of very low stress. Because they have a seamless shell, these motor homes have a limited selection of sizes.

    #2 SECOND BEST
    Common, Affordable, & comes in Many Sizes so this is my main focus
    I own an example of this type. My Rig Here manufactured by Phoenix USA.
    Made in sections, but assembled in a way that greatly reduces the threat of water. Here are the good things you want to look for.

    a) Structural Seams Away From Corners
    When a motor home is driven, the house bounces, resonates, shakes, and leans, many thousands of times, representing a series of extended continuous earthquakes. Corner seams see greater stresses than seams located elsewhere. Corner seams are more easily split, especially when the caulk gets brittle with age & exposure to the sun. One extremely bad bump in the road can instantly breach a corner seam. Seams hold up much better when they are brought in from the corners in lower stressed areas.

    b) A Seamless Over-The-Van Front Cap
    A huge bed above the van’s roof is the most vulnerable area of a motor home. No matter how well they are made, that long frontal over-hang resonates when the RV is driven. It is common for seams to split there, most troublesome with age & exposure to the elements. The small front aerodynamic cap of a B+ design eliminates the overhang which eliminates most of the resonation, along with most seam work.

    There are a few conventional “C” Designs (big over-van bed) where that area is seamless. If you absolutely must have that huge bed, then look for a seamless bucket-like design. Born Free offers a seamless bucket design as seen in This Model. Winnebago's View Here is another fine example. Some manufactures as of late offer a partial bucket design with fewer seams located in less-stressed areas. The Nexus Phantom and the Minnie Winnie apply a compromising partial bucket design, making it a better choice over a fully seamed cab-over bed.

    If you plan to accommodate more than 2 people, having that large extra cab-over bed will be extremely useful.

    c) A Crowned Roof
    Rain and snow melt runs off a crowned roof. A flat roof will sag over time, then water puddles around heavy roof-top items like the a/c unit. Water eventually finds it's way inside after gaskets & caulk have degraded from age, sun, and change in seasons.

    d) Rolled-Over-The-Edge seamless Fiberglass Roof Sheathing
    A single sheet of fiberglass that rolls over the right & left sides of the roof, down the wall a few inches. The fiberglass sheathing holds up better than roofs made of sheet rubber or thin plastic called TPO, which require more attention to keep your RV well protected.

    e) A Five Sided Rear Wall Cap
    A five sided back wall moves the seams around to the sides to areas of much less stress. Some rear wall sections are constructed with an integrated spare tire compartment and rear storage compartment. Not only are they convenience features, but it offers a solid double-wall for exceptional strength which is more resistant to flexing adjoining seam work.

    Potentially Troublesome Construction
    Entry level motor homes are made with seams in corners and finished off with trim, including the massive cab-over bed. Their roof is flat and finished with rubber or TPO. They are most affordable, and come in all sizes. HERE is one such example. If considering this construction type, keep in-mind they require more regular care with bi-annual inspections. Plan to use a caulking gun now and then. When buying a used one, consider that you really don't know how well the previous owner maintained it. Buying new or used, that construction method will be counting on you to be a good non-neglectful owner.

    There are also rare exception like the Lazy Daze which has seam work in the corners, but the substructure and sealing method is of the highest quality that it holds up like a seamless body. It's excellent sectional construction methods are not commonly found in other brands. I am no expert on this, but I'd give it a #1.5 Almost Like Best

    About The Chassis
    The most popular is the Ford E-Series with the V10 engine. The Sprinter diesel is a popular alternative to the E350 in the smaller sizes. The GM chassis is not popular, but is a very good choice for the right application. Any of those three brands since 1998 are real good, new or used. If you plan to tow a car or heavy trailer, be aware that the Sprinter is the least powered chassis. People who tow with a Sprinter, take it slower.

    If considering a recent “small” class B+/C motor home, here is a comparison between the two main contenders, the Sprinter with the V6 diesel engine and the Ford E350 with the V10 gasoline engine.

    Advantages Of The Sprinter With Diesel Engine
    - Offers a 35% improvement in fuel economy over the Ford-V10, when both are loaded and driven identically.
    - More ergonomic driver compartment with more leg room.
    - Comfort continues with a car-like feel & quiet ride.
    - A grander view out the windshield
    - Made by Mercedes which people are attracted to.

    Advantages Of The Ford E350 with V10 Engine
    - Given identical motor homes both brand and model, the Ford is around $13,000 MSRP cheaper
    - The Ford V10 engine has 50% more horse power and torque
    - The Ford E350 chassis handles 1430 pounds more weight.
    - The E350 is able to tow a heavier load.
    - The E350 rear axle is significantly wider which translates to better stability.
    - In most places traveled, gasoline costs less than diesel fuel
    - The Sprinter diesel has limited mechanical service shops around North America
    - The Sprinter diesel is typically outfitted with a propane generator. Propane is a critical fuel for RV operations, and generally needs to be rationed when dry camping.
    - This Next Point Is Debatable But Still Worth Noting....The V6 Sprinter diesel engine is not allowed to idle for extended periods. This limitation is detrimental when you need a/c but there are generator restrictions or you are dangerously low on propane, or you have a mechanical failure with the generator or roof a/c. The Ford V10 can safely idle for hours on end, heating, cooling, and battery charging, all valuable if you have a baby, pets, or health/respiratory issues.

    You decide what your priorities are, and pick the appropriate chassis. There are some really sweet motor homes being built exclusively on the Sprinter chassis, such as the Winnebago Via, View and View Profile. Others like Phoenix USA build their model 2350 and 2400 on both the Sprinter and Ford E350. They will even build it on the heaviest duty E450 upon request for a nominal fee. People who request an E450 for a small motor home, tow heavier things like for example, a multi-horse trailer. You can even special order a E350 & E450 4x4.

    There is so much cool stuff offered in recent years, and even more anticipated with the upcoming Ford T-Series chassis. The general public hopes it will become available for the RV industry. It is kind-of like a Sprinter in size and fuel economy, but hopeful to be much more affordable and easier to get serviced.

    The Chevy 3500/4500 Chassis
    I do not understand why this chassis is not more popular. It offers more interior comfort than the Ford, but not as much as the Sprinter. It's power & weight ratings are a little less than their Ford counter-parts making them a great chassis for all but the heaviest of class Cs. They are also a little better on fuel consumption. One thing to keep in-mind, if you are counting inches to store your rig, the Chevy adds an additional 6" to the front bumper compared to the Ford. I learned that researching rigs that could fit in my 25'-0" deep garage. By default, the Ford gave me 6" more to work with. If you examine my motor home in my garage HERE, you will see our Ford E350 is quite tight already. That could be some of the reason why the Chevy offers a little more interior driver/passenger space.

    Engine Power Ratings of Ford, Sprinter, & Chevy
    Ford - 6.8L-V10, 305hp, 420ft
    Sprinter Diesel - 3.0L-V6, 188hp, 325ft
    Chevy - 6.0L-V8, 323hp, 373ft
  • Our 27 footer (bumper to bumper)just fits our driveway, the extra few feet don't affect driveability much at all. Short rigs generally don't have rear bedrooms with RV Queen beds and lack cargo and inside cabinet space and elbow room. Many learn to dislike sleeping in the overhead or making the dinette into a small lumpy bed. Most Class C'are the same width. Spend some time in and driving B+, 24 and 27 foot rigs before you decide on length and are stuck with your decision.
  • I did a lot of research before buying my 27' '99 Lazy Daze Rear bath.
    VERY HAPPY with it. Lots of windows (all 4 sides have vast windows), 2 couches that can be used as Twin Beds or pushed together for a KING, and a comfortable queen bed over cab.

    The 24' Lazy Daze is worth looking at although I really like the extra room in the 27. Easy to drive and park.
  • Take a look at Lazy Daze, very high quality Class C models. They make a 22-23 footer as well as a 26-footer. We owned their largest one, a 30-footer, and were very happy with it ... but it turned out to be more than we needed! If we had bought a smaller one, we'd still own it.