Pulling a "Toad" on a Trailer?

I don't know if I am using the term "proportional" correctly... I just don't think brakes that are only "ON" or "OFF" are a good thing.

If they are weak enough that they don't drag when you are gradually slowing down, then they won't add much when you are trying to stop quickly. On the other hand, if they are strong enough to actually slow the Toad, then they are going to activate prematurely if you are just braking to decrease speed, but not actually stopping.

As was pointed out... do you really "need" brakes on a Toad (other than from a legal sense)...? probably not. But if you are going to have them, it seems to me they should be an asset, not a hindrance.

Bumpyroad wrote:
...as a 14 year user of a brake buddy, I think that the "proportional" hype is just that , hype, and an advertising gimmick. I set my BB so that it would only come on under fairly severe braking, I did not want my toad stopping my motorhome. worked just fine. I would not hesitate to buy and use any "non-proportional" braking systems myself if the system otherwise fits your needs.

..Although I don't agree with Bumpy on the specific braking system choice, I do agree that the word "proportional" is thrown around and abused waaaay too much in advertising various braking systems. Same thing with advertising for brake controllers used for controlling trailer brakes on trailers.

Very, very few (TOAD) braking systems are truly 100% proportional to MH brakes. Most use an Accelerometer of some type to determine braking. This is frequently called 'proportional', but it truly is not.

Only TOAD braking systems I've seen that really and truly are proportional would be the M&G system or Air Force One. Systems that plug into and work directly off MH's air brake system.

Very nice systems, but obscenely expensive and only work if you have a DP Motorhome with full air brakes.

Will

lordnorth wrote:
Thank you! Not just because you agree with me for the most part.. but this was an excellent response. Explaining the reasons for why you feel the way you do is extremely helpful.

I appreciate all of the help that I have received, but yours is especially appreciated!

Do you use the ReadyStop BreakAway as well?

Yep, indeed I do, and it works great best I can tell (well, seems like it should, haven't actually had a break-away happen, haha!)

Having some kind of BreakAway system IMO is actually even more important than having a supplemental braking system at all.

Will

lordnorth wrote:
Assuming that I went the way of 4 down instead of trailer... I am really thinking that the ReadyBrake perhaps with the added brake vacuum pump is the way to go instead of invisabrake.

The idea of invisabrake is nice, but if I read it correctly it is NOT proportional... in other words, the brake is either applied or not applied. So if you are in the habit of making long, slow stops (I teach tractor trailer driving so I am all about loooong slow stops) you will have disproportionate amount of braking from your Toad, on the other hand if you need a quick stop, you don't get any extra assistance from behind.

With the ReadyBrake a long slowdown will result in minimal braking from the Toad. The harder you slow down, the more braking you get from the Toad. Add in the vacuum pump (if necessary) and it seems to me that you have got almost the equivalent of proportional electric brakes.

Am I looking at this correctly?

as a 14 year user of a brake buddy, I think that the "proportional" hype is just that , hype, and an advertising gimmick. I set my BB so that it would only come on under fairly severe braking, I did not want my toad stopping my motorhome. worked just fine. I would not hesitate to buy and use any "non-proportional" braking systems myself if the system otherwise fits your needs.
bumpy

willald wrote:

lordnorth wrote:
Assuming that I went the way of 4 down instead of trailer... I am really thinking that the ReadyBrake perhaps with the added brake vacuum pump is the way to go instead of invisabrake.

The idea of invisabrake is nice, but if I read it correctly it is NOT proportional... in other words, the brake is either applied or not applied. So if you are in the habit of making long, slow stops (I teach tractor trailer driving so I am all about loooong slow stops) you will have disproportionate amount of braking from your Toad, on the other hand if you need a quick stop, you don't get any extra assistance from behind.

With the ReadyBrake a long slowdown will result in minimal braking from the Toad. The harder you slow down, the more braking you get from the Toad. Add in the vacuum pump (if necessary) and it seems to me that you have got almost the equivalent of proportional electric brakes.

Am I looking at this correctly?

Yes, I think you are. I also like the Readybrake, it is only braking system I'll own.

The other really, really nice advntages the Readybrake has over Invisibrake and other systems, you may or may not have thought about:

1. Cost - Readybrake costs SUBSTANTIALLY less $$ than any other system. If you get the Readybrute Elite tow bar and braking system combination, it saves you over $1000 for what you'd pay for a separate tow bar and most any other system.

2. Simlicity - No electronics to foul up and cause havoc with your brakes. Ever. Just simple, no-nonsense cable operated system that simply works. And, almost anything that might possibly break or wear out with it, you can get parts at any hardware store for less than $20 to fix it. The same cannot be said for most any other braking system. Also, the beauty of a mechanical system like this is that you can inspect may of its parts for wear & tear, fix potential problems before they become something breaks. Not the case for electronically controlled brake systems.

One of the things I really like about the design of the Readybrake is this: Once it is installed and set up correctly, it is just about impossible for it to EVER over-brake your toad and damage the brakes. The same cannot be said for many electronic systems.

As far as the brake vacuum pump: I've towed two vehicles with a Readybrake. The first one had no vacuum assist, and it did fine. The second one (what I tow now), is one of few vehicles where power (vacuum) braking stays on ALL the time, even when engine is off and/or when towing (Ford Fusion hybrid). Soo, brake pedal does not become 'dead' and tough to press when engine is off. With the Fusion, I have found that braking is a little bit better than it was on my previous vehicle that did not have power braking on all the time, but not significantly so.

If you go the 4 down route and get a Readybrake, I would try it first without the additional brake vacuum pump. You may well find you do not need it.

Thank you! Not just because you agree with me for the most part.. but this was an excellent response. Explaining the reasons for why you feel the way you do is extremely helpful.

I appreciate all of the help that I have received, but yours is especially appreciated!

Do you use the ReadyStop BreakAway as well?

Chris

lordnorth wrote:
Assuming that I went the way of 4 down instead of trailer... I am really thinking that the ReadyBrake perhaps with the added brake vacuum pump is the way to go instead of invisabrake.

The idea of invisabrake is nice, but if I read it correctly it is NOT proportional... in other words, the brake is either applied or not applied. So if you are in the habit of making long, slow stops (I teach tractor trailer driving so I am all about loooong slow stops) you will have disproportionate amount of braking from your Toad, on the other hand if you need a quick stop, you don't get any extra assistance from behind.

With the ReadyBrake a long slowdown will result in minimal braking from the Toad. The harder you slow down, the more braking you get from the Toad. Add in the vacuum pump (if necessary) and it seems to me that you have got almost the equivalent of proportional electric brakes.

Am I looking at this correctly?

Yes, I think you are. I also like the Readybrake, it is only braking system I'll own.

The other really, really nice advntages the Readybrake has over Invisibrake and other systems, you may or may not have thought about:

1. Cost - Readybrake costs SUBSTANTIALLY less $$ than any other system. If you get the Readybrute Elite tow bar and braking system combination, it saves you over $1000 for what you'd pay for a separate tow bar and most any other system.

2. Simlicity - No electronics to foul up and cause havoc with your brakes. Ever. Just simple, no-nonsense cable operated system that simply works. And, almost anything that might possibly break or wear out with it, you can get parts at any hardware store for less than $20 to fix it. The same cannot be said for most any other braking system. Also, the beauty of a mechanical system like this is that you can inspect may of its parts for wear & tear, fix potential problems before they become something breaks. Not the case for electronically controlled brake systems.

One of the things I really like about the design of the Readybrake is this: Once it is installed and set up correctly, it is just about impossible for it to EVER over-brake your toad and damage the brakes. The same cannot be said for many electronic systems.

As far as the brake vacuum pump: I've towed two vehicles with a Readybrake. The first one had no vacuum assist, and it did fine. The second one (what I tow now), is one of few vehicles where power (vacuum) braking stays on ALL the time, even when engine is off and/or when towing (Ford Fusion hybrid). Soo, brake pedal does not become 'dead' and tough to press when engine is off. With the Fusion, I have found that braking is a little bit better than it was on my previous vehicle that did not have power braking on all the time, but not significantly so.

If you go the 4 down route and get a Readybrake, I would try it first without the additional brake vacuum pump. You may well find you do not need it.

Assuming that I went the way of 4 down instead of trailer... I am really thinking that the ReadyBrake perhaps with the added brake vacuum pump is the way to go instead of invisabrake.

The idea of invisabrake is nice, but if I read it correctly it is NOT proportional... in other words, the brake is either applied or not applied. So if you are in the habit of making long, slow stops (I teach tractor trailer driving so I am all about loooong slow stops) you will have disproportionate amount of braking from your Toad, on the other hand if you need a quick stop, you don't get any extra assistance from behind.

With the ReadyBrake a long slowdown will result in minimal braking from the Toad. The harder you slow down, the more braking you get from the Toad. Add in the vacuum pump (if necessary) and it seems to me that you have got almost the equivalent of proportional electric brakes.

Am I looking at this correctly?

An aluminum trailer IS lite. You can just about sell them years later for close to what they cost new. Weight? The example above shows a steel trailer weighing 1350lbs, same trailer in aluminum is a lot less weight....One of my racing friends has a 24ft enclosed aluminum trailer, everything aluminum except axels, no lining and on the truck stop scales it weighed just a little over 1700lbs empty. But it cost $12000+, right pricey. But all aluminum trailers are pricey....Yes on the brakes even though in some states, SC and Tenn come to mind you don't even need a license plate, you think they are going to check your brakes???? I use a trailer.

Brakes are required by law on a TRAILER in nearly every state in the Union! Not only that, but a breakaway system that will hold the trailer brakes applied for at least 15 minutes is required in many states.
Some states require brakes for trailers that weigh 1500 lbs or more UNLADEN and some states say that 3000 lbs GROSS weight or more require brakes.
So, YES, any car hauler MUST have brakes. Some states require brakes on one axle, some require brakes on all wheels.
The two major advantages to using a trailer:
1. Yes, you can back up anywhere, any distance, even around corners, depending only on the skill of the driver.
2. ANY vehicle that meets the size and weight requirements of the trailer can be taken.
Minor advantages are:
The trailer may come in handy for other jobs. I used mine to haul hay for the horses, and rocks for landscaping.
There is never any discussion about whether brakes are "required by law" or not. The answer is a resounding YES, they are required by law, PERIOD!

As for the brake system, either electric brakes or surge brakes are quite adequate. The choice is purely personal preference. Given the choice between running two 8 gauge wires from the front of my coach all the way to the back (one for the brakes, and one to charge the breakaway system battery) AND installing a brake controller in the coach, or using surge brakes, I would choose the surge brakes! I have never had a problem with a surge brake equipped trailer in the mountains.

Yes, I've pulled a car on a two axle heavy duty auto carrier with three different V-10 Class A units and one class A with the 8.1L Chevy. I've owned, and yes, for your own safety, do not tow without auxiliary brakes on the trailer and make sure that you adjusted prior to or at the start of each trip. Even with trailer brakes properly adjusted, start your breaking earlier than you would when not towing.Hauled a classic car I had owned from here to Texas and back and to several out of town car shows before I got rid of the car. With the exception of ability to back up, I prefer to use our car dolly instead.