Quality control issues-curiosity

I have motor homes from three different msnufacturers. One I kept for only 9 months. Was paid to return to factory and fix numerous problems. Never was satisfactory. They are now out of business. Had three winnebagos. Two gas were great coaches, one, a diesel was an absolute Lemmon. Winnebago was still doing one year warranty work on it at the 5 year point when I got rid of it. Had 5000 moles dedicated to and from warranty work. I bet I talked to at least 100 owners of the same motor home, a journey,and no one had the same problems as I did. Moral to the story: it is not always the model or the dealer, some times it is just a lousy product caused by lack of quality production and control on a particular day or model or something. Not sure what

Many companies go for the ISO 9001 rating so they can use it in their marketing propaganda and then are surprised to find that making the improvements required to obtain the rating increased their productivity and reduced costs too. It's unfortunate that many times its a case of the tail wagging the dog, but at least it gets done.

As a Quality Engineer, I think I can safely say that there are ways to improve quality and ultimately reduce costs and waste.

Having said that, I also have had the opportunity to first, particapate in qualifying one company in ISO 9000, and then leading a second company to qualify.

In both those instances, the quality not only increased significantly, but the throughput amounted to 4 times the previous rate, and the acceptance rate went from 24% to 96%.

Nobody lost a job.

The applications a QE implements are simple and well known. Perhaps the company would benefit by hiring an actual QE, then doing what he recommends.

There are several steps you can take if you are interested in purchasing an RV with good quality.

1. Take two or more factory tours to view construction. In my case, the Newmar build quality was better than the Monaco, but both were reasonably good. We bought the Diplomat because DW loved the floorplan and decor options (still does).

2. Buy from a company with major market share and good finances. In 2005 both were the case with Monaco. Larger market share indicates that many people who are voting with real dollars think that this is a good manufacturer. Solid finances are important -- when coach makers are in financial trouble, quality is certain to suffer.

3. Order a winter build. Because motorhomes are hand-built, the skill of the workers is essential for good quality. A mamufacturing supervisor once told me, "Do not buy a vehicle made during August or deer season!" You want to buy a vehicle built during the World Series, not during spring training.

4. Pick up the RV in Elkhart. All of the miles except 60 factory test miles were put on our coach by yours truly.

If you do these things, you have greatly increased your prospects for owing a good RV. Most people who make a determined effort to buy quality will do so.

No. All QC is not lousy.

Well maybe I over stated that. There is good and bad in new and used. These systems are not like a car. They are way more complicated. They have a ton (maybe only 1/2 a ton) of third party systems. Be careful what you ask for. The worst enemy of a good or great motorhome is the expectation of perfect or near perfect product. The price will likely multiply exponentially.

Also, if everybody started buying used, in ten years you would only have coaches 10+ years old to choose from. That implies that all amenities would be 10+ years old. All MH mfgr would be out of business. And those that like custom orders will not get them.

Be painstakingly thorough in your search and work with the dealer/mfgr to get what is not right corrected and you will likely be as happy as we are with ours. We have had some things repaired under warranty but only a few. BTW, you will not be able to buy our coach at 10 years old, as we will still be using it, God willing.

Haven't visited an RV assembly joint since 2000 when I bought my retirement Class A. QC was in name only in the 4 I did one day tours of then. All claimed to have a QC program. Some had better workers than others, with resulting better "average" units leaving the factory under the loving control of a delivery cowboy. Dealers are left to tidy up any misqueues. Some do this better than others.

At an Escapees Rally, I parked my new 35' Rexhall Class A next to a new 45', multiple slide, tag axle DP. Asked the owner how he liked his new RV. "I'd be totally pissed off if I hadn't already owned 5 MH's" he said. The vast majority of new Class A buyers will have a few to several items that need adjusting or fixing over the first year or so -- and then be a very happy camper for the duration of their ownership -- to the point that they will be reluctant to trade "the devil they know" for a new one. These are the folks you see enjoying the treasures this great country offers the RV lifestyle. Unfortunately, a few will get the dreaded "day before the holiday" unit, some of which the only remedy will be a lemon law. Lots of them will post here which may mislead newbies and wanna-be's into missing out on the rewards of the RV lifestyle. Folks who are "Mr Fixit" challenged will find their enjoyment dependent on their fortune in selecting their dealer.

My observations are based on just trading for my 9th RV, a previously loved 2 year old 30' Class A, and my 51 years of RV ownership: Pickup Campers, Class B, Class B+, Class C's, Class A's, 400k RV miles, and a dozen years of "half-time-fulltiming".

The small build number effects all brands. It is very frustrating to buy a new rig and end up with an arm long list of simple things that should have been addressed before it was ever put on the floor to be sold. The crash has taken a toll on many of the majors in both 5/trailers and MHs. This has hopefully weeded out some of the bad actors. One thing to remember is that it takes a great deal less capital to open a trailer 5ver plant then a motorhome plant, and a more skilled work force to build a mh then a trailer.
On my last two used coach purchases I had a walk through list of fixes before we signed, and a written warranty for 30 days.
When your ready and able to buy you have total control. Once you sign and pay your down your power in the transaction is greatly minimized.
Everything in writing, it doesn't hurt to mention in passing to the sales person that your brother Larry the attorney specializes in motor vehicle fraud cases.
Jmho

soren wrote:
If you are still interested, take a different approach. Find a USED motorhome from a quality manufacturer. Buy it from the original owner, not a dealer.

I agree. There are some quality manufacturers out there and there are owners who take painstaking care of their RVs. Buy one of those and you'll be satisfied. We were with our Newmar!

1968mooney wrote:
OK, I "was" shopping for a new MH but I will just keep my money in the bank and look for a hobby that cares about it's customers and tries to build a quality product. I have been on this site for 2 months and have read so much "negativity" about manufact. and dealers it will scare anyone away. Most of the negatives come from veteran RVers. People you look to for advice. Thanks for the warning.

I recently heard a great comment from a scientist who said, " the plural of anecdote is NOT data". The fact that folks show up on this forum to complain that they are having problems is in no way a valid metric as to the quality of a specific product, or a reflection on the industry. I have a nine year old Winnebago. I bought it at the end of summer, a year ago, and in the last fourteen months have put nearly 25K miles on it. Including giving it a good thrashing on a lot of gravel roads in Alaska and the Yukon. In that time there have been no serious issues, and I spent a total of $93 on two parts for the two minor problems it had, a replacement wall thermostat and a water heater igniter. This is my tenth RV, and someday there will be an eleventh.

My experiences are far from unusual, and represent the majority of owners, who are typically quietly happy with their rigs and spend their time enjoying them. The belief that there is zero quality control out there, and that all manufacturers and product lines are nothing but haphazardly assembled trash, waiting to fall apart, is a bunch of bull. I spend my winters with lots of people that live 4-6months a year in very middle of the road, vacation grade fifth wheels. These are the popular units from the mega-manufacturers. Bottom line is that many of these rigs are 8-10 years old, none have been flawless, but none are causing the owner huge distress, and the need to be screaming on the forums about what absolute garbage they are.

Dealers are no different. There are a lot of scumbag dealers out there, and it is real easy to figure out which ones to avoid. there are also really good ones, and there are three in my local area. One hint is that they are all family run operations that have been there a long time. They are not superstores, RV mega-dealers or chains.

It's your money to spend. If you are still interested, take a different approach. Find a USED motorhome from a quality manufacturer. Buy it from the original owner, not a dealer. Don't buy one until you have looked at many and have found the right rig and the right seller. There are owners out there that take exceptional care of their rigs and are proud to show you how and what they do, they will have all the documents and can tell you their experience. Mine came from a guy who built a barn for it. He also waxed the roof an repainted the frame on a regular basis. I paid 20% less than a typical dealer wanted for a similar unit. I paid less for this rig than the loss of 2-3 years of depreciation on a similar new one.

Good luck in whatever you decide, but at the very least don't let all the negativity here ruin something good.

The only way the automobile industry improved their quality was by replacing most humans with robots. Since RV's are not built in quantities sufficient to warrant a lot of robots, I think the quality level we have now will be the same or decline more as fewer young people coming in to the job market want to work with their hands. Sort of sad but you see the same thing in the stick housing market.