Forum Discussion

prepilot_3ck's avatar
prepilot_3ck
Explorer
Feb 22, 2019

Solar Sanity check (SSC?)

Fellow drivers of the Fonzie-Class RV,

Hopefully sooner than later I plan on adding some boondocking worthy solar panels to the roof of my RV. I've done a ton of research, called a dozen or so companies, local dealers, watched endless Youtube videos and read forums until my eyeballs bled. All that research, along with an above average understanding of electricity and electronics I've created this calculator to help me (in my situation/RV/goals) buy what I need now, and grow as my needs grow/change and my budget (or lack there of) allows. So think if this as phase-1. With phase-1, I want to minimize or maybe eliminate generator use on most days.

Calculator:
Calculator

Or

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1YXjcWVNEDWTzVMa1rDc_u44d7NpJsMVeBJ4XATP1Ltc

This is a google sheet, but you shouldn't need a google account to use it. The fields highlighted in GREEN can be changed to effect the results. Feel free to change those fields and see how it changes stuff.

What I'm looking for:
I need a quick sanity check on the math there, and the results. There are enough "Black boxes" inline there that I'm not sure what effect they have on the math (charge controllers, inverters, etc).

What I'm hoping to determine:
I hope to determine, if in full, 8+ hours, of sun (I camp 99% of the time in the desert southwest of the US) how many panels do I need to run my residential fridge (1-3amps on the AC side) and still have enough juice to charge my batteries up from say...50% so when the sun goes down, I have full batteries to start with.

My conditions:
My RV is new to me, and came with brand new 6V batteries, arranged in a standard series/parallel setup to deliver 440A/Hrs. When these die, I'll swap them with something better, probably lithium but that's a few years out, so for now I'm dealing with what I have.

During the day, I need my panels to charge my batteries and run my fridge. At night, I'll turn off my fridge (by turning off my inverter) and just use the batteries for lights, water pump, phone/laptop charging and other somewhat minimal loads. I don't expect a ton of drain overnight, but I figure I'm probably under estimating there a bit. So, I expect to have mostly dead batteries by morning. I'll also be doing the initial cool down of the fridge on the generator while I'm driving. So when on the battery/solar is should be just maintaining temp, not cooling it down from ambient air temp.

So... what do you all think? Did't the 80's hair band Slaughter write a song about this? "Drain all night, charge all day!" I think those were the words anyway. :)

Thanks!
Brian

28 Replies

  • WAFlowers wrote:
    Remember that a residential refrigerator figured by EPA to run 1/3 of the time, so figure 4-5A for 20 minutes per hour. Best to err on the high side.

    As azrving noted it might be better to leave the inverter on and run the fridge all night. With the cooler overnight temperatures the fridge shouldn't cycle as often or as long as during the day.

    Before starting I would install a Victron battery monitor and figure out exactly what you use. Then you can size your system appropriately.

    Although you might be in "full sun" for 8 hours many of those hours the sun will be at a lower angle (and going through more atmosphere) reducing your solar efficiency. Even here in Florida the standard calculation is 4.4 hours of full (direct) sun despite 8+ hours of sunlight. Also take into account the angle of the sun to the panels unless you install tilting mounts.

    Without knowing all the details which a good battery monitor will give you about your current usage (pun intended) it is difficult to say if 400W on the roof will be enough. It might be. And maybe you need 600-800W. You could look at installing four 180-200W panels and use a (more expensive) MPPT charge controller.


    Excellent point on the battery monitor. I'm going to drop one in my Amazon cart right now.

    Brian
  • azrving wrote:
    Frig may warm up more than you plan on. Each time mine is turned back on it does a defrost.

    My resi uses about 75 AH per day. I was running on four GC2 with a gas fridge, LED bulbs, 42 in led television, fans etc and did fine on 520 watts tilted.

    When I went to the 10 cu ft resi I added 480 watts of panels and two more GC for six total. It can pretty much carry itself but we usually run the Genny in the am for coffee maker so some of the heavy amps are going back in.


    This is GREAT feedback! Thank you.

    Brian
  • Ivylog's avatar
    Ivylog
    Explorer III
    First thing I'd do is measure your power usage. You probably have 1 amp DC of parasitic loads (I have 3 24/7) and your 1-3 amps AC for a residential is hopefully only 1 and then only 40% of the time. The 21 CuFt Whirlpool I installed draws 8 amps DC (96W) measured before the inverter and 1.2KW/day or 16 cents. I agree you can turn the inverter off for 8 hours at night (temp will not rise to much in the refer) but I would run the generator for 30 minutes to make coffee and power the refer while it gets back up to temp. If you use your generator in the evening and morning, 100W of solar panel/battery is all you need... 400W of panels for 4 batteries. If you are a purest (solar only, no generator) then you need to double the number of panels.

    I recently installed 900W (9 100W panels) into a 60 amp mppt controller. Cost was $550 for the panels and $450 for the controller. Made my own tilting mounts so $250 in misc parts and cables...$1.40/watt. I have 9 batteries although the 9 panels was more what would fit on my roof and leave room to walk on one side.

  • I there is enough solar, then running the fridge during the day is better as the it may draw the bank down for 20 minutes, and then the solar can recharge for 40 minutes. If 600 watts is used, then there may be little or no discharging of the bank for the shoulder hours from 2.5 hours before and after 'solar noon'.

    WAFlowers wrote:
    As azrving noted it might be better to leave the inverter on and run the fridge all night. With the cooler overnight temperatures the fridge shouldn't cycle as often or as long as during the day.
  • I would be aiming at 800+ watts. Clear space without shadows can get to be an issue when going big.
  • Remember that a residential refrigerator figured by EPA to run 1/3 of the time, so figure 4-5A for 20 minutes per hour. Best to err on the high side.

    As azrving noted it might be better to leave the inverter on and run the fridge all night. With the cooler overnight temperatures the fridge shouldn't cycle as often or as long as during the day.

    Before starting I would install a Victron battery monitor and figure out exactly what you use. Then you can size your system appropriately.

    Although you might be in "full sun" for 8 hours many of those hours the sun will be at a lower angle (and going through more atmosphere) reducing your solar efficiency. Even here in Florida the standard calculation is 4.4 hours of full (direct) sun despite 8+ hours of sunlight. Also take into account the angle of the sun to the panels unless you install tilting mounts.

    Without knowing all the details which a good battery monitor will give you about your current usage (pun intended) it is difficult to say if 400W on the roof will be enough. It might be. And maybe you need 600-800W. You could look at installing four 180-200W panels and use a (more expensive) MPPT charge controller.
  • prepilot,

    Here is a link to a page where you can download a spread sheet that has lots of flexibility.

    https://freecampsites.net/adding-solar-part-four/

    BTW you link take a person to a "locked" sheet.

    prepilot_3ck wrote:
    Fellow drivers of the Fonzie-Class RV,


    This is a google sheet, but you shouldn't need a google account to use it. The fields highlighted in GREEN can be changed to effect the results. Feel free to change those fields and see how it changes stuff.

    What I'm looking for:
    I need a quick sanity check on the math there, and the results. There are enough "Black boxes" inline there that I'm not sure what effect they have on the math (charge controllers, inverters, etc).

    What I'm hoping to determine:
    I hope to determine, if in full, 8+ hours, of sun (I camp 99% of the time in the desert southwest of the US) how many panels do I need to run my residential fridge (1-3amps on the AC side) and still have enough juice to charge my batteries up from say...50% so when the sun goes down, I have full batteries to start with.

    My conditions:
    My RV is new to me, and came with brand new 6V batteries, arranged in a standard series/parallel setup to deliver 440A/Hrs. When these die, I'll swap them with something better, probably lithium but that's a few years out, so for now I'm dealing with what I have.

    During the day, I need my panels to charge my batteries and run my fridge. At night, I'll turn off my fridge (by turning off my inverter) and just use the batteries for lights, water pump, phone/laptop charging and other somewhat minimal loads. I don't expect a ton of drain overnight, but I figure I'm probably under estimating there a bit. So, I expect to have mostly dead batteries by morning. I'll also be doing the initial cool down of the fridge on the generator while I'm driving. So when on the battery/solar is should be just maintaining temp, not cooling it down from ambient air temp.

    So... what do you all think? Did't the 80's hair band Slaughter write a song about this? "Drain all night, charge all day!" I think those were the words anyway. :)

    Thanks!
    Brian
  • Frig may warm up more than you plan on. Each time mine is turned back on it does a defrost.

    My resi uses about 75 AH per day. I was running on four GC2 with a gas fridge, LED bulbs, 42 in led television, fans etc and did fine on 520 watts tilted.

    When I went to the 10 cu ft resi I added 480 watts of panels and two more GC for six total. It can pretty much carry itself but we usually run the Genny in the am for coffee maker so some of the heavy amps are going back in.