Toad &a brake assist

willald wrote:

tropical36 wrote:
...Forget the laws, which I always refuse to even discuss and be concerned only with stopping quicker. Even if it's only a matter of 12" or so better and especially with the unpredictable panic stops.......

Tropical, the problem is, that logic of "even if its only a matter of 12" or so" can be taken, used to justify a LOT of things. Things that could reduce stopping distance much more than a towed vehicle braking system.

Wouldn't a complete upgrade, overhaul of the Motorhome's braking system, including high performance rotors, pads, also result in an improvement in stopping distance? Oh, guess we all should spend several thousand $$ to upgrade our MH brakes, then, huh, or we just are asking for trouble, right?

Wouldn't a lighter Motorhome stop quicker than a fully loaded one? OK, then, from now on, we all must empty the refrigerator, pantry, and water tanks before you hit the road. You can stock up on groceries when you get to your destination, and fill the water tanks, then, too. I mean, forget the law, that would make you stop quicker, right, and its something you can easily do, right?

Wouldn't a Motorhome not towing a towed vehicle at all stop even quicker? OK, then, no more towing cars, folks, somebody else will have to drive the towed vehicle and follow you down the road. I mean, that results in a shorter stopping distance, right?

Wouldn't a lightweight Class B Motorhome built on a Sprinter chassis stop MUUUCH quicker? Alright, folks, time to trade in that 42' DP for a smaller Class B Motorhome. I mean, that'd mean shorter stopping distance, right?

....Pretty soon, this logic leads to the point NONE of us would own an RV of any kind, and would just be staying in hotels and traveling by car. After all, that'd be much safer on the road, and have MUUUUCH better stopping distance, right? :)

Will

All this is true enough, just as outlawing automobiles and no matter how extreme the fix, it would save a lot of lives. Most likely more, than outlawing certain weapons, in fact.
This was not the OP's question, however.
Now, as to your response, am I to assume that you tow without a supplementary braking system on your toad?

Commissioner must be really busy! Has to approve brake fluid, pads and shoes!
Link to statute

tropical36 wrote:
...Forget the laws, which I always refuse to even discuss and be concerned only with stopping quicker. Even if it's only a matter of 12" or so better and especially with the unpredictable panic stops.......

Tropical, the problem is, that logic of "even if its only a matter of 12" or so" can be taken, used to justify a LOT of things. Things that could reduce stopping distance much more than a towed vehicle braking system.

Wouldn't a complete upgrade, overhaul of the Motorhome's braking system, including high performance rotors, pads, also result in an improvement in stopping distance? Oh, guess we all should spend several thousand $$ to upgrade our MH brakes, then, huh, or we just are asking for trouble, right?

Wouldn't a lighter Motorhome stop quicker than a fully loaded one? OK, then, from now on, we all must empty the refrigerator, pantry, and water tanks before you hit the road. You can stock up on groceries when you get to your destination, and fill the water tanks, then, too. I mean, forget the law, that would make you stop quicker, right, and its something you can easily do, right?

Wouldn't a Motorhome not towing a towed vehicle at all stop even quicker? OK, then, no more towing cars, folks, somebody else will have to drive the towed vehicle and follow you down the road. I mean, that results in a shorter stopping distance, right?

Wouldn't a lightweight Class B Motorhome built on a Sprinter chassis stop MUUUCH quicker? Alright, folks, time to trade in that 42' DP for a smaller Class B Motorhome. I mean, that'd mean shorter stopping distance, right?

....Pretty soon, this logic leads to the point NONE of us would own an RV of any kind, and would just be staying in hotels and traveling by car. After all, that'd be much safer on the road, and have MUUUUCH better stopping distance, right? :)

Will

aboeck3 wrote:
I am towing a Honda CR-V l, weight 3500 lbs, do I really need a brake assist
In the car? Seems like a lot of hassle.

It's not hassle unless you consider the whole experience of owning an RV a hassle. Forget the laws, which I always refuse to even discuss and be concerned only with stopping quicker. Even if it's only a matter of 12" or so better and especially with the unpredictable panic stops.
Back to the install, choose NSA's READYBRAKE or their complete tow bar ass'y, the READYBRAKE ELITE for simplicity, effectiveness and the best bang for the buck. Also consider the optional breakaway that's equally as simple and even though no one ever hopes to test it.

mowermech wrote:

Dutch_12078 wrote:

willald wrote:

I actually live in the one state mowermech is referring to, I believe, that does require such (North Carolina). However, even with NC, the laws are soooo vague, its just about impossible to comply with it completely. Mowermech has the details, but NC basically says it has to be a system they approve of, but nowhere will you find anything saying just what types of systems they 'approve', hahaha. (right, mowermech?)

Gee, I hope my ReadyBrake system I use is one they approve of. :R Oh, wait, its not, since I can't engage or control it manually from the Motorhome. Guess I'm going straight to jail, now, huh? Hahahahaha. :)

ReadyBrake, M&G, etc. are NOT "brake systems" in themselves, so no approval should needed. They are simply "brake application systems" that apply the Federal DOT/NHTSA approved existing brake system on the vehicle that presumably NC approves as well. If they don't, that's a whole different issue...

This is the applicable portion of the NC law (20-124):
"(f) Every semitrailer, or trailer, or separate vehicle, attached by a drawbar or coupling to a towing vehicle, and having a gross weight of two tons, and all house trailers of 1,000 pounds gross weight or more, shall be equipped with brakes controlled or operated by the driver of the towing vehicle, which shall conform to the specifications set forth in subsection (e) of this section and shall be of a type approved by the Commissioner."

Note that the brakes must be "controlled or operated by the driver" and must be "of a type approved by the Commissioner".
Is a surge brake controlled by the driver? Is it of a TYPE approved by the Commissioner? Does the braking conform to Subsection (e)?
If not, it is apparently not legal in NC!

Where does it say the operating system must be approved? The brake system itself needs to be of course. And yes, since a properly designed surge brake system only operates the towed vehicle brakes when the towing vehicle brakes are applied by the operator with sufficient force to activate them, they would appear to fall within the law in my opinion. Have all of the various handicapped hand operated brake controls been "approved" in NC? Have your leg and foot been "approved" in NC for that matter? ;)

It surely wasn't the intent of the law, but note that ONLY a towed vehicle with a gross weight of two tons must have the braking system. If it weighs more than two tons, apparently no braking is required.
The law is very specific about house trailers (gross weight of 1000 pounds or more)!
"...and having a gross weight of two tons, and all house trailers of 1,000 pounds gross weight or more,..."
Of such technicalities are court cases won or lost...

mowermech wrote:

Dutch_12078 wrote:

willald wrote:

I actually live in the one state mowermech is referring to, I believe, that does require such (North Carolina). However, even with NC, the laws are soooo vague, its just about impossible to comply with it completely. Mowermech has the details, but NC basically says it has to be a system they approve of, but nowhere will you find anything saying just what types of systems they 'approve', hahaha. (right, mowermech?)

Gee, I hope my ReadyBrake system I use is one they approve of. :R Oh, wait, its not, since I can't engage or control it manually from the Motorhome. Guess I'm going straight to jail, now, huh? Hahahahaha. :)

ReadyBrake, M&G, etc. are NOT "brake systems" in themselves, so no approval should needed. They are simply "brake application systems" that apply the Federal DOT/NHTSA approved existing brake system on the vehicle that presumably NC approves as well. If they don't, that's a whole different issue...

This is the applicable portion of the NC law (20-124):
"(f) Every semitrailer, or trailer, or separate vehicle, attached by a drawbar or coupling to a towing vehicle, and having a gross weight of two tons, and all house trailers of 1,000 pounds gross weight or more, shall be equipped with brakes controlled or operated by the driver of the towing vehicle, which shall conform to the specifications set forth in subsection (e) of this section and shall be of a type approved by the Commissioner."

Note that the brakes must be "controlled or operated by the driver" and must be "of a type approved by the Commissioner".
Is a surge brake controlled by the driver? Is it of a TYPE approved by the Commissioner? Does the braking conform to Subsection (e)?
If not, it is apparently not legal in NC!

(sarcasm mode: on)

Ohhh, then I guess if you're gonna be in NC, unless your towed vehicle has a gross weight of less than 2 tons (4,000 lbs), you better make sure your supplemental brake system is approved by the Commissioner and conforms to Subsection e, or you're in trouble. :R

Whew! Sure glad my Ford Fusion's GVWR is around 3,800 lbs. Now I don't have to get my system approved by the commissioner. I don't have to use a supplemental brake at all if I don't want, and will still be legal in NC. :D

Will

Dutch_12078 wrote:

willald wrote:

I actually live in the one state mowermech is referring to, I believe, that does require such (North Carolina). However, even with NC, the laws are soooo vague, its just about impossible to comply with it completely. Mowermech has the details, but NC basically says it has to be a system they approve of, but nowhere will you find anything saying just what types of systems they 'approve', hahaha. (right, mowermech?)

Gee, I hope my ReadyBrake system I use is one they approve of. :R Oh, wait, its not, since I can't engage or control it manually from the Motorhome. Guess I'm going straight to jail, now, huh? Hahahahaha. :)

ReadyBrake, M&G, etc. are NOT "brake systems" in themselves, so no approval should needed. They are simply "brake application systems" that apply the Federal DOT/NHTSA approved existing brake system on the vehicle that presumably NC approves as well. If they don't, that's a whole different issue...

This is the applicable portion of the NC law (20-124):
"(f) Every semitrailer, or trailer, or separate vehicle, attached by a drawbar or coupling to a towing vehicle, and having a gross weight of two tons, and all house trailers of 1,000 pounds gross weight or more, shall be equipped with brakes controlled or operated by the driver of the towing vehicle, which shall conform to the specifications set forth in subsection (e) of this section and shall be of a type approved by the Commissioner."

Note that the brakes must be "controlled or operated by the driver" and must be "of a type approved by the Commissioner".
Is a surge brake controlled by the driver? Is it of a TYPE approved by the Commissioner? Does the braking conform to Subsection (e)?
If not, it is apparently not legal in NC!

I guess I would answer the OP's question with the question of - why not? For the very small comparative cost of your brand new 42' DP why wouldn't you do it? A lot of RV'ers make some of these decisions based on cost. To me, if you are towing a car, a brake system is a given and should be included in the pay to play calculation. Yes you should have one. Most are relatively simple to install and a one time cost.

willald wrote:

I actually live in the one state mowermech is referring to, I believe, that does require such (North Carolina). However, even with NC, the laws are soooo vague, its just about impossible to comply with it completely. Mowermech has the details, but NC basically says it has to be a system they approve of, but nowhere will you find anything saying just what types of systems they 'approve', hahaha. (right, mowermech?)

Gee, I hope my ReadyBrake system I use is one they approve of. :R Oh, wait, its not, since I can't engage or control it manually from the Motorhome. Guess I'm going straight to jail, now, huh? Hahahahaha. :)

ReadyBrake, M&G, etc. are NOT "brake systems" in themselves, so no approval should needed. They are simply "brake application systems" that apply the Federal DOT/NHTSA approved existing brake system on the vehicle that presumably NC approves as well. If they don't, that's a whole different issue...