We backed out of the deal

Dog Folks wrote:

Executive wrote:
See if I got this straight..

1 The OP finds this motorhome. It's what he's looking for at a good price.
2 Seller allows OP to use the MH for a night before paying for it.
3 OP discovers 'issues' with the MH while using it and backs out of the deal
4 Seller is angry
5 The following day the OP discovers the MH has salvage title and the 'seller' isn't actually the 'owner'.

IF all the above is true, then the OP failed to do his due diligence while contemplating the purchase. The seller sounds like a crook and the OP learned a valuable lesson, I hope...:S...do your due diligence!!!

As for the "My word is my bond" thing....IMHO, some seem to be missing the point....all due diligence is done BEFORE giving the word or hand shake or whatever...same as giving the check or the cash...know what you're getting BEFORE shaking hands.

This is beginning to now sound like a trolling episode.......Dennis

[COLOR=]1a. The OP said: "We agreed to purchase and the owner drove it to our home and parked it in the driveway."

Sounds like an oral agreement to me, but then again, I'm not Judge Judy. No disrespect meant Dennis.

for the record, Judge Judy says an oral agreement isn't worth the paper it isn't printed on.
but when is the title even available for review? if a lien, some states retain it until released by the lien holder. I think that not disclosing that it is a salvage unit is fraud. and since the seller did not operate in conformance of the regulations on salvaged units, the "oral" agreement was not in effect. keep defending a scam artist if you so desire. :s
bumpy

I wish all those that state once you handshake or verbally agree to a deal IT IS A DEAL, worked as an RV salesman. They are ALWAYS getting people who not only agree verbally, but even sign paperwork to purchase an RV. The amount who back out is tremendous. Especially at RV shows. So, those that state oral or handshake, please let people know that once you do that, you OWN that RV:B. Doug, I am not a salesman, I just see it weekly and have for over 35 years.

Executive wrote:
See if I got this straight..

1 The OP finds this motorhome. It's what he's looking for at a good price.
2 Seller allows OP to use the MH for a night before paying for it.
3 OP discovers 'issues' with the MH while using it and backs out of the deal
4 Seller is angry
5 The following day the OP discovers the MH has salvage title and the 'seller' isn't actually the 'owner'.

IF all the above is true, then the OP failed to do his due diligence while contemplating the purchase. The seller sounds like a crook and the OP learned a valuable lesson, I hope...:S...do your due diligence!!!

As for the "My word is my bond" thing....IMHO, some seem to be missing the point....all due diligence is done BEFORE giving the word or hand shake or whatever...same as giving the check or the cash...know what you're getting BEFORE shaking hands.

This is beginning to now sound like a trolling episode.......Dennis

[COLOR=]1a. The OP said: "We agreed to purchase and the owner drove it to our home and parked it in the driveway."

Sounds like an oral agreement to me, but then again, I'm not Judge Judy. No disrespect meant Dennis.

See if I got this straight..

1 The OP finds this motorhome. It's what he's looking for at a good price.
2 Seller allows OP to use the MH for a night before paying for it.
3 OP discovers 'issues' with the MH while using it and backs out of the deal
4 Seller is angry
5 The following day the OP discovers the MH has salvage title and the 'seller' isn't actually the 'owner'.

IF all the above is true, then the OP failed to do his due diligence while contemplating the purchase. The seller sounds like a crook and the OP learned a valuable lesson, I hope...:S...do your due diligence!!!

As for the "My word is my bond" thing....IMHO, some seem to be missing the point....all due diligence is done BEFORE giving the word or hand shake or whatever...same as giving the check or the cash...know what you're getting BEFORE shaking hands.

This is beginning to now sound like a trolling episode.......Dennis

et2 wrote:
Who knows what he tore into to get the answers he was seeking. Probably the same as you would have done. Picked it apart piece by piece looking for something that didn't please you or something to negotiate a lower price with. There is no benefit to the seller as this case proved it. It was his fault he didn't get some cash out of the whole ordeal.

You can bet it won't happen with the next prospective buyer with him if he learned anything. And if it were me, any cash exchanged is up front (cash) and would have been rental fees and no refunds with documentation of that agreement, but it wouldn't because I don't want you ripping my rig apart. As I said in your post, your welcome to take a few hours looking it over and taking it on a test drive ( with me). But it isn't being delivered to your home for further critique.

I must have failed to read the part where the OP "ripped apart" someones MH. I read "upon inspection." Maybe to you that means ripping things apart, but it doesn't necessarily mean that to me or to the OP. As for looking for something to negotiate the price lower... You make it sound like that is a bad thing. Damn right.. if I find a problem I'm going to ask for a lower price. You know the best way to combat that? List EVERY SINGLE DEFECT YOU CAN -- even if that means a pull in the carpeting that covers the dogbox. If a seller says he is selling something that is "perfect" for x amount of dollars, then that is what the item is worth in "perfect" condition. Anything less than his declaration of condition -- then we have something to talk about. It is always the sellers right to say, "Nope, not going to go any lower. It is what it is, take it or leave it."

As for there being no benefit to the seller... again I would have to disagree. I walked away from the sale where the guy wouldn't let me stay. The one that I finally bought said it would be fine. I chose not to take him up on the offer because I felt he went out of his way to point out EVERY SINGLE DEFECT he knew about -- including the fact that one of the tire air sensors had a wrong id number sticker on it, and that the pressure gauge that he installed on the water fill wasn't accurate. So the benefit to allowing it? One seller now has a wad of cash in his pocket; the other seller still has a MH sitting in his driveway. Seems to be a pretty big benefit to me.

lordnorth wrote:
I find it interesting... I posed a question a few weeks ago, asking is it reasonable to request to spend the night in an RV before making a purchase. I got blasted to holy h*ll about it. Fortunately, the OP didn't read that post or he may not have found out about the problem until it was too late.

Your word and a handshake is good and all, but I'm pretty sure there is no legal authority anywhere who would enforce that. Your word, and whether you honor it speaks to your morals, no more, no less. And even that is only if the other side was completely honest and forthcoming. If an item was not as described you have absolutely no obligation to honor any word or handshake.

The OP absolutely did the right thing, and even if there was a deposit made, I think that I would very strongly attempt to get that deposit back. He certainly doesn't owe the seller anything for bringing the RV to him. Had it been in the condition that he advertised it, the purchase would have been completed. Had the OP known of the condition he would have told the seller NOT to bring it in the first place. In other words, the only reason that the RV was there at all is because the seller, knowingly or unknowingly failed to disclose defects.

The seller failing to disclose the defects certainly isn't the OP's fault, and should not be expected to pay for anything that resulted from the sellers failure (whether intentional or not) to disclose said faults.

Yours is the post I mentioned above "yours". The seller on this post screwed up big time, in any case if he was hiding something or not. And the answer is still no in regards to your post and most people would still probably tell you that.

The OP on this post got lucky. We only have his story of what transpired . Who knows what he tore into to get the answers he was seeking. Probably the same as you would have done. Picked it apart piece by piece looking for something that didn't please you or something to negotiate a lower price with. There is no benefit to the seller as this case proved it. It was his fault he didn't get some cash out of the whole ordeal.

You can bet it won't happen with the next prospective buyer with him if he learned anything. And if it were me, any cash exchanged is up front (cash) and would have been rental fees and no refunds with documentation of that agreement, but it wouldn't because I don't want you ripping my rig apart. As I said in your post, your welcome to take a few hours looking it over and taking it on a test drive ( with me). But it isn't being delivered to your home for further critique.

Arizona law requires that any person who sells a vehicle for which a salvage title has been issued, must disclose to the buyer, before the completion of the sale, that it is a salvage vehicle.

The above, from the Arizona DMV sort of says it all.
As soon as the OP found out, he canceled the sale. The OP was 100% right and if the seller would have disclosed the salvaged title right from the beginning, he probably would not have had to deliver it, and then take it back.

lodnorth, if I were selling you my motorhome and you wanted to spend the night in it and you didn't look like a bum off the street, I would allow it at my house on the side yard without the keys in it. But unlike the seller in this story, I wouldn't let somebody take the RV without them having paid for it.

Now if I had some piece of junk motorhome that had water damage in the walls that I had carefully concealed from any potential buyer, then I would be much more willing to accommodate any buyers request in hopes that I could unload the thing on some sucker before the wall completely fell apart. Actually I would not do this to somebody, but this is what I think the seller in this story did. He had a sucker on the hook and didn't want to lose the deal but the sucker found his dirty work.

I find it interesting... I posed a question a few weeks ago, asking is it reasonable to request to spend the night in an RV before making a purchase. I got blasted to holy h*ll about it. Fortunately, the OP didn't read that post or he may not have found out about the problem until it was too late.

Your word and a handshake is good and all, but I'm pretty sure there is no legal authority anywhere who would enforce that. Your word, and whether you honor it speaks to your morals, no more, no less. And even that is only if the other side was completely honest and forthcoming. If an item was not as described you have absolutely no obligation to honor any word or handshake.

The OP absolutely did the right thing, and even if there was a deposit made, I think that I would very strongly attempt to get that deposit back. He certainly doesn't owe the seller anything for bringing the RV to him. Had it been in the condition that he advertised it, the purchase would have been completed. Had the OP known of the condition he would have told the seller NOT to bring it in the first place. In other words, the only reason that the RV was there at all is because the seller, knowingly or unknowingly failed to disclose defects.

The seller failing to disclose the defects certainly isn't the OP's fault, and should not be expected to pay for anything that resulted from the sellers failure (whether intentional or not) to disclose said faults.

I love the "my word is my bond" old school approach. I am true to my word but I can bet dollars to do-nuts most aren't and I don't trust anyone. A hand shake doesn't do it for me. I need documentation and due diligence. You guys can take the John Wayne approach, I'll stick with being overly cautious and watch out for number one. And until I deliver funds, take possession and finalize the deal, it's still on the table. I don't care how many times we've shaken hands. Shaking hands or giving a "word" has never helped me recover from a bad deal or kept me from making an uneducated decision. I'll shake your hand, I will also scrutinize a deal every way from Sunday to make sure you aren't screwing me. My "word" is in the funds I deliver once I know the deal is solid. This is not True Grit. This is a modern world and a lot of money at stake and a lot of folks who want to take it from you.