time_to_go_now wrote:
Gjac wrote:
When we talk about quality issues with RV's I think most of the issues relate to poor design or Mfg processes. If you think about it even in lower cost cars like a KIa you don't hear about leaking windows,roof's or windshields. you don't hear about doors not fitting or holes in the floor letting in hot air. The difference is that the auto industry sells an order of magnitude more cars than RV Mfg's sell RVs and the spend a lot more money up front for production tooling and NC processes(non recurring costs) in order to reduce the cost or the car (recurring cost). When the small number of units built does not justify spending this non recurring money you have to rely on a worker doing things by hand rather than hard tooling or NC processes. If a worker is asked to cut out a door or window aperture by hand and another uses a template(hard tooling) or an NC machine which will produce a more accurate product for less man hrs? Until the industry consolidates and orders increase for the same RV, we will be stuck with these problems. Prototype(small number or units) cars, aircraft, and RV's will always cost more and have more Mfg problems that production units. Auto workers are not better or more skilled than RV workers they just have better tooling and processes to work with. I would like to find which Mfg sells the most units on a single model.
I like this answer. Given the fact I was an NC programmer for years and I am still sell software to machine shops. I know that Boeing, UTC, Lockheed, Northrop, etc. are all looking at ways to improve quality and reduce cost. And it is possible! Maybe fewer models and fewer floorplans, but much better quality at the same, or slightly elevated price point.
It does seem that each of these is hand built. I ran across another example tonight. I had to remove the 3/4" plywood support for the huge dash. There were some carpeted 1/2" x 3" x 36" plywood "shims" that were stacked 3 high. These were visible to the interior, so they carpeted each one. They were used as shims to raise the level of the dash as the main support was cut too short. I will cut a new support after I measure exactly how tall it needs to be. There was NO support for the right side of the dash. It was just floating on the wall. No wonder it bounced and flexed while going down the road. I will have to be creative to come up with a solution. It is not obvious to me at this time. Maybe a hidden angle bracket?
Again, not bagging on Tiffin. It just seems that some of these things could have been better done.
I retired from UTC after 30 years and all the company's you mentioned know that you can't inspect quality into a product after it is built, it has to be part of the design/Mfg process. Additionally there is something called the "learning curve" which has been around since WW2 that says the more you make of one product the cheaper you can sell that one product. For example I would guess that an RV is on an 85% learning curve which means every time you double the units made you it takes 15% fewer man hrs to make the unit. Simply put a unit that takes 1000 man hrs for the first one will take about 250 man hrs once it reaches 1000 units. If the Winabago for example new that they could sell 5000 sightseers rather than 500 they could amortize the nonrecurring cost over these units and reduce the recurring cost of each unit. They would lose money on the first units but make it up as more units are built. The bottom line is that we as owners would all complain less about "quality".
