Wiring the Bi-Directional Isolator Relay diesel-2

Doug, (Dougrainer) ALL Intellitec products (and their manuals and brochures), including the 839 are still available from authorized Intellitec sources. I have access to them all. Believe me, the 839 is still very much in production.

OnaQuest wrote:

dougrainer wrote:

OnaQuest wrote:

dougrainer wrote:

dougrainer wrote:
At the BIRD there should be a GEN spade with a wire. DISCONNECT that GEN wire and the BIRD should allow bi directional charging as long as the Converter(Inverter/Charger) supply voltage is OVER 13.2 volts. Remember, BI directional when on Shore/Gen ONLY happens when the House charging system supplies over that 13.2 volts. Once the Charging goes to float(usually this is less than 13.1), the BIRD drops out the charge to the chassis side batteries. Doug

I doublechecked my files and went to Intellitec. They offer NO BIRD that has a Genset setting that I can find. IF your Monaco has such a system that is designed and installed by Monaco. I do not remember a charge system that had the Genset disengage the BI charging just on Genset. We sold and I seviced Monaco's from 1998 till they went under in 2008/09. They DID have a feature (optional on the models from Cayman/Diplomat/Knight and down the cost scale/standard on the higher lines) on the large main fuse board up front in the storage, there was an empty area in the center with a multi prong plug where you could buy from Monaco and install the Bi directional module that would charge the chassis when 120 voltage was available. Now, Monaco sent out a TSB over 10 years ago and this may be what you have---When the original wiring was done, IF you have an Inverter/Charger or a converter that had the bulk charge adapter, when the chassis engine was ON and the genset was ON and the Inverter/Charger went to BULK charge (over 14.1 volts) this caused the ALT light on the dash to come on. This was because the fault for the chassis Alt as set at 14.1 volts or over. The solution was to install a relay that was connected to the genset Hourmeter 12 volt positive thru a bosch relay that anytime the chassis engine was ON and the Genset was ON at the same time, the chassis Alternator did not charge the coach batteries, since the Inverter/Charger would be charging them. Once the Genset was turned off the bosch relay closed to allow the chassis Alt would charge the coach batteries. Doug

Doug, everything you say here is true except the statements in red. Intellitec makes the model 839 BIRD. The 839 has the gen lockout feature designed to prevent the interference you mention above. Monaco does not make a BIRD device.

The OP has a 2000 model The 839 was NOT available back then. MY post was for HIS model. Intellitec obviously developed the 839 after 2007/08. The Bosch relay system I mentioned was DESIGNED by Monaco for the problem I outlined. IF they had the 839 back then, that is what we would have installed. If you read the 839 instructions, it specifically states that the Gen spade and design is exactly for the ATL fail light when Gen and Engine running at the same time. So, that is how the OEM's have addressed the Alt fail light problem. This problem can happen on Roadmaster/Ford/Frtliner chassis systems. Workhorse never had the problem. Doug

You are changing what you said. You said Intellitec does not offer a BIRD with the gen set lockout, not that they didn't in the past. You are right that the 839 was not available in 2000 but I'm pretty sure the 366 (it's predecessor) was, and it had the lockout.

The reason I stated that is I went to Intellitec's website and they did NOT show the 839 and since I have never seen one, I made that statement. Intellitec's website was taken down a few years ago and redone and the new website does NOT have the manuals and features and all their products like the old website. You can buy the 839 on E bay, but when you do a Google search, the E bay is the most common site to find the 839. It is also possible that Intellitec no longer offers the 839 and that is the reason it is not on their website. There may be suppliers and OEM's that still have a supply of them. This is one thing I like about these forums. I now know that their IS a relay(BIRD) for the Alt light fault indicator. Doug

dougrainer wrote:

OnaQuest wrote:

dougrainer wrote:

dougrainer wrote:
At the BIRD there should be a GEN spade with a wire. DISCONNECT that GEN wire and the BIRD should allow bi directional charging as long as the Converter(Inverter/Charger) supply voltage is OVER 13.2 volts. Remember, BI directional when on Shore/Gen ONLY happens when the House charging system supplies over that 13.2 volts. Once the Charging goes to float(usually this is less than 13.1), the BIRD drops out the charge to the chassis side batteries. Doug

I doublechecked my files and went to Intellitec. They offer NO BIRD that has a Genset setting that I can find. IF your Monaco has such a system that is designed and installed by Monaco. I do not remember a charge system that had the Genset disengage the BI charging just on Genset. We sold and I seviced Monaco's from 1998 till they went under in 2008/09. They DID have a feature (optional on the models from Cayman/Diplomat/Knight and down the cost scale/standard on the higher lines) on the large main fuse board up front in the storage, there was an empty area in the center with a multi prong plug where you could buy from Monaco and install the Bi directional module that would charge the chassis when 120 voltage was available. Now, Monaco sent out a TSB over 10 years ago and this may be what you have---When the original wiring was done, IF you have an Inverter/Charger or a converter that had the bulk charge adapter, when the chassis engine was ON and the genset was ON and the Inverter/Charger went to BULK charge (over 14.1 volts) this caused the ALT light on the dash to come on. This was because the fault for the chassis Alt as set at 14.1 volts or over. The solution was to install a relay that was connected to the genset Hourmeter 12 volt positive thru a bosch relay that anytime the chassis engine was ON and the Genset was ON at the same time, the chassis Alternator did not charge the coach batteries, since the Inverter/Charger would be charging them. Once the Genset was turned off the bosch relay closed to allow the chassis Alt would charge the coach batteries. Doug

Doug, everything you say here is true except the statements in red. Intellitec makes the model 839 BIRD. The 839 has the gen lockout feature designed to prevent the interference you mention above. Monaco does not make a BIRD device.

The OP has a 2000 model The 839 was NOT available back then. MY post was for HIS model. Intellitec obviously developed the 839 after 2007/08. The Bosch relay system I mentioned was DESIGNED by Monaco for the problem I outlined. IF they had the 839 back then, that is what we would have installed. If you read the 839 instructions, it specifically states that the Gen spade and design is exactly for the ATL fail light when Gen and Engine running at the same time. So, that is how the OEM's have addressed the Alt fail light problem. This problem can happen on Roadmaster/Ford/Frtliner chassis systems. Workhorse never had the problem. Doug

You are changing what you said. You said Intellitec does not offer a BIRD with the gen set lockout, not that they didn't in the past. You are right that the 839 was not available in 2000 but I'm pretty sure the 366 (it's predecessor) was, and it had the lockout.

OnaQuest wrote:

dougrainer wrote:

dougrainer wrote:
At the BIRD there should be a GEN spade with a wire. DISCONNECT that GEN wire and the BIRD should allow bi directional charging as long as the Converter(Inverter/Charger) supply voltage is OVER 13.2 volts. Remember, BI directional when on Shore/Gen ONLY happens when the House charging system supplies over that 13.2 volts. Once the Charging goes to float(usually this is less than 13.1), the BIRD drops out the charge to the chassis side batteries. Doug

I doublechecked my files and went to Intellitec. They offer NO BIRD that has a Genset setting that I can find. IF your Monaco has such a system that is designed and installed by Monaco. I do not remember a charge system that had the Genset disengage the BI charging just on Genset. We sold and I seviced Monaco's from 1998 till they went under in 2008/09. They DID have a feature (optional on the models from Cayman/Diplomat/Knight and down the cost scale/standard on the higher lines) on the large main fuse board up front in the storage, there was an empty area in the center with a multi prong plug where you could buy from Monaco and install the Bi directional module that would charge the chassis when 120 voltage was available. Now, Monaco sent out a TSB over 10 years ago and this may be what you have---When the original wiring was done, IF you have an Inverter/Charger or a converter that had the bulk charge adapter, when the chassis engine was ON and the genset was ON and the Inverter/Charger went to BULK charge (over 14.1 volts) this caused the ALT light on the dash to come on. This was because the fault for the chassis Alt as set at 14.1 volts or over. The solution was to install a relay that was connected to the genset Hourmeter 12 volt positive thru a bosch relay that anytime the chassis engine was ON and the Genset was ON at the same time, the chassis Alternator did not charge the coach batteries, since the Inverter/Charger would be charging them. Once the Genset was turned off the bosch relay closed to allow the chassis Alt would charge the coach batteries. Doug

Doug, everything you say here is true except the statements in red. Intellitec makes the model 839 BIRD. The 839 has the gen lockout feature designed to prevent the interference you mention above. Monaco does not make a BIRD device.

The OP has a 2000 model The 839 was NOT available back then. MY post was for HIS model. Intellitec obviously developed the 839 after 2007/08. The Bosch relay system I mentioned was DESIGNED by Monaco for the problem I outlined. IF they had the 839 back then, that is what we would have installed. If you read the 839 instructions, it specifically states that the Gen spade and design is exactly for the ATL fail light when Gen and Engine running at the same time. So, that is how the OEM's have addressed the Alt fail light problem. This problem can happen on Roadmaster/Ford/Frtliner chassis systems. Workhorse never had the problem. Doug

dougrainer wrote:

dougrainer wrote:
At the BIRD there should be a GEN spade with a wire. DISCONNECT that GEN wire and the BIRD should allow bi directional charging as long as the Converter(Inverter/Charger) supply voltage is OVER 13.2 volts. Remember, BI directional when on Shore/Gen ONLY happens when the House charging system supplies over that 13.2 volts. Once the Charging goes to float(usually this is less than 13.1), the BIRD drops out the charge to the chassis side batteries. Doug

I doublechecked my files and went to Intellitec. They offer NO BIRD that has a Genset setting that I can find. IF your Monaco has such a system that is designed and installed by Monaco. I do not remember a charge system that had the Genset disengage the BI charging just on Genset. We sold and I seviced Monaco's from 1998 till they went under in 2008/09. They DID have a feature (optional on the models from Cayman/Diplomat/Knight and down the cost scale/standard on the higher lines) on the large main fuse board up front in the storage, there was an empty area in the center with a multi prong plug where you could buy from Monaco and install the Bi directional module that would charge the chassis when 120 voltage was available. Now, Monaco sent out a TSB over 10 years ago and this may be what you have---When the original wiring was done, IF you have an Inverter/Charger or a converter that had the bulk charge adapter, when the chassis engine was ON and the genset was ON and the Inverter/Charger went to BULK charge (over 14.1 volts) this caused the ALT light on the dash to come on. This was because the fault for the chassis Alt as set at 14.1 volts or over. The solution was to install a relay that was connected to the genset Hourmeter 12 volt positive thru a bosch relay that anytime the chassis engine was ON and the Genset was ON at the same time, the chassis Alternator did not charge the coach batteries, since the Inverter/Charger would be charging them. Once the Genset was turned off the bosch relay closed to allow the chassis Alt would charge the coach batteries. Doug

Doug, everything you say here is true except the statements in red. Intellitec makes the model 839 BIRD. The 839 has the gen lockout feature designed to prevent the interference you mention above. Monaco does not make a BIRD device.

The BIRD is definitely a device made by Intellitec. The model 839 has the generator lock out feature.

It doesn't have to be activated if the user chooses not to. It's purpose is to inhibit the alternator charge voltage from activating the BIRD when the generator is also running.

Think about it. If they are both running, the BIRD is not needed anyway, and the possibility of the converter charge voltage confusing (or worse) the engines alternator and charge gauge is eliminated.

People will ask why the lockout is not needed, or used, when on shore power (converter charging) and the alternator is also charging. The conditions would be the same, but it's just that this probably wouldn't happen for an extended period of time like it might be when driving and running the generator for air conditioning.

Monaco was/is not a big user of the BIRD. They seem to prefer a diode charge path for some of their coaches.

Fred, I sent you some stuff via email.

Monaco did in fact include (actually several over the years) Bidirectional charge systems in their mid price pushers.

While the original IRD was an Intelletec device (one one-way only) subsequent BIRD systems were not made by intelletec.

Note also, a Genny connection is not used and not needed. The unit "see's" the voltage in the house side and the chassis side, and determines from that alone where the charge is coming from and what state the batteries are in.

It absolutely will let the charge source bring it's "home batteries" up to float, and then cut in the other side.
In either direction, from any charge source.

Our works really well.

I believe that on my Sig, all charging devices, eg, gen,inv, eng, all have diodes pointed at both batteries. This setup works well and has been around along time. No contacts or controllers to burn out. These charging devices have built in charge controllers already. This includes the solar panel.

dougrainer wrote:
At the BIRD there should be a GEN spade with a wire. DISCONNECT that GEN wire and the BIRD should allow bi directional charging as long as the Converter(Inverter/Charger) supply voltage is OVER 13.2 volts. Remember, BI directional when on Shore/Gen ONLY happens when the House charging system supplies over that 13.2 volts. Once the Charging goes to float(usually this is less than 13.1), the BIRD drops out the charge to the chassis side batteries. Doug

I doublechecked my files and went to Intellitec. They offer NO BIRD that has a Genset setting that I can find. IF your Monaco has such a system that is designed and installed by Monaco. I do not remember a charge system that had the Genset disengage the BI charging just on Genset. We sold and I seviced Monaco's from 1998 till they went under in 2008/09. They DID have a feature (optional on the models from Cayman/Diplomat/Knight and down the cost scale/standard on the higher lines) on the large main fuse board up front in the storage, there was an empty area in the center with a multi prong plug where you could buy from Monaco and install the Bi directional module that would charge the chassis when 120 voltage was available. Now, Monaco sent out a TSB over 10 years ago and this may be what you have---When the original wiring was done, IF you have an Inverter/Charger or a converter that had the bulk charge adapter, when the chassis engine was ON and the genset was ON and the Inverter/Charger went to BULK charge (over 14.1 volts) this caused the ALT light on the dash to come on. This was because the fault for the chassis Alt as set at 14.1 volts or over. The solution was to install a relay that was connected to the genset Hourmeter 12 volt positive thru a bosch relay that anytime the chassis engine was ON and the Genset was ON at the same time, the chassis Alternator did not charge the coach batteries, since the Inverter/Charger would be charging them. Once the Genset was turned off the bosch relay closed to allow the chassis Alt would charge the coach batteries. Doug

At the BIRD there should be a GEN spade with a wire. DISCONNECT that GEN wire and the BIRD should allow bi directional charging as long as the Converter(Inverter/Charger) supply voltage is OVER 13.2 volts. Remember, BI directional when on Shore/Gen ONLY happens when the House charging system supplies over that 13.2 volts. Once the Charging goes to float(usually this is less than 13.1), the BIRD drops out the charge to the chassis side batteries. Doug