With the E-350 and E-450's chassis being phased out on the horizon, I wonder what will replace that as the mainstay of most C models being made?What I see are four alternatives:1: The Transit chassis. Decent in Europe, but I don't know if it has the ability to handle a 31 foot C's weight. At least the EcoBoost V6 does come close to the V10's torque output, but horsepower may need some help.2: The Dodge ProMaster (i.e. the Fiat Ducato.) Most European Cs are on this chassis. However, few in the US would buy a manual-only diesel, and a small V6 is just not going to do the job of a V10 unless some form of enhanced aspiration (turbocharger, supercharger) is used.3: The Sprinter. This works for up to 24 feet, but not much past that.4: The Chevy Express line. Can these go up to 31 feet? Not sure.I wonder what is going to be the future of Cs going forward once Ford turns the lights off on the E-series. I do say for a vehicle that has to deal with the weight that E-series chassis functions with, they have been in general very reliable, with pretty much the spark plug issue being the biggest item.

I haven't heard any definite cutoff date for the Econoline cutaway-it could be years. My thought is when it does go away, the time will probably be right. As fuel prices rise sooner or later there won't be much market for a 10 mpg class C. There will be more economical alternatives on these other chassis. Probably the larger sizes of C market will gravitate to the gas class A on the F53. Some of these are currently being produced at prices not much higher than a C.

Ford has announced no plans to cancel the E series chassis cab, sounds solid out to at least 2015.I have already seen a Class C on a Transit chassis.

E-series cutaway has been committed through at least 2019 with the vans through at least 2015.Express Chassis can't go past a 209" wheelbase because the frame is smaller. So sticking a longer body it makes for bad weight weight balance. You can pretty much see the 30' cutoff on the Express from all the big RV makers. Plus, GM has never even hinted at a long-term forecast for the Express. THey've cancelled truck lines before with only a couple months notice.Ducato/Pormaster is FWD. Not way would you be able to pull a 30'+ coach up any sort of a grade without madly spinning the tires.A while back I rear one article stating Ford will stick the Transit cab on the F53 chassis for a larger cab/chassis (i.e. T550). But I haven't seen anything lately so maybe that has been put on hold. Ford is maxed on F53 production anyways because RVs made a HUGE jump in sales this year (and there is no longer Workhorse to compete with).Transit pretty much matches the Sprinter axle and GVWR capacities, so I think you'll see see it taking some of the Sprinter market, but nothing bigger. It's main advantage will probably towing capacity (assuming they maintain the F150 ratings), and lower cost.

I am starting to see C's on the F chassis (pick-up). Thor has the F-550 Super C with the diesel. I am thinking Ford will continue to dominate the market with the cut-a-way for RV and box trucks. As long as there is a demand they will continue to produce until a better design comes along. I can't see them dropping the line without having a replacement.

Not that the E-series is being phased out, but if it were, the T-series could be manufactured in any size needed. Just as with the unibody Sprinter, to make a cab-chassis from a Transit, it is necessary to build a frame and mount the cab of the unibody truck on that frame. Size and capacity of the resulting chassis is simply a marketing decision. I don't see the market for US-style C's, 24 to 30+ feet and 14,000+ GVWRs, lasting much longer, if anyone here starts producing Euro-style motorhomes, under 7000 pounds at seven meters length, capable of 20-30 MPG. That could take a while to happen, we are historically slow to accept smaller anything. Winnebago has made at least four tries at the smaller motorhome concept, producing something similar in size and equipment to contemporary European RVs, and they've been not well accepted here. The ProMaster will be the first chassis offering suitable to this type of motorhome, but the one we are getting can be about 50% 'bigger' than a global market Ducato, Master, or front-drive Transit. Not even Ford thinks we are ready for the 3500 KG van.So to begin with, I suspect the first ProMaster Cs will be about as big as they can be on the highest GVWR ProMaster chassis offered. First models will likely use our current house construction techniques, and include heavy features like slideout rooms, gensets, air conditioners and wastewater tanks, because that's what we are buying. FWD and small engines work in Europe because the motorhomes on those chassis aren't any heavier, and not much taller or wider, than our full-size SUVs. About 30% larger than our minivans.

With the E-series going away, what for future Cs?

17 Replies

mlts22
Explorer II
May 15, 2013
I stand corrected with regards to the MT-40 AMT, because details here are skinny on this, and the last source I read stated it was a manual. It sounds like an interesting transmission offering.

As for the Chevy, I am not surprised that they are rebadging a NV model. Having an Euro-style van was a big hole in their offerings, and the Express is getting long in the tooth.
RobertRyan
Explorer
May 15, 2013
tatest wrote:
The fact that larger RVs are available in Europe does not refute the fact that FWD works because the FWD motorhomes are small.

But larger Motorhomes 27-29ft are FWD in Europe and to a certain extent here. Yes you have smaller Motohomes based on FWD but up to 30ft can be built on FWD.
This is FWD Motorhome

So is this 27ft Ducato

30ft Burstner Elegance built on the FWD Ducato

mlts22 wrote:
Not in the US (linky):

The gasser will get a Chrysler 62TE, which is a hydraulic auto transmission.

The diesel model will be the Fiat MT-40 which is a completely manual transmission (no "D"), except doesn't use a clutch pedal.

No AMT offerings. Hopefully I'm wrong or misreading something.

It is a AMT They work better with a longer chassis.
with Chrysler’s engine and transmission joining Fiat’s 3-liter four-cylinder diesel and an MT-40 automated manual transmission

Original is at 2014 Model-Year Chrysler, Dodge, and Jeep Cars, Trucks, and Minivans http://www.allpar.com/history/chrysler-years/C21/2014/#ixzz2TLzsSZVk
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Should be more than one suitable offering i.e Ford for 30ft Motorhomes.

tatst wrote:
What you have in Australia does not have much to do with where the market might go in the U.S., particularly if the current EPA schedule for reduction in fuel consumption holds, and exceptions are not made for niche markets like RVs.

Well the market in the US is absorbing more Euro Vans i.e Promaster, Transit and Sprinter. So there is similarities there. Reduction in fuel consumption is part of the Agenda here as well.
Latest news Nissans smaller Vans will be rebadged Chevrolet.
Chevrolet to get rebadged Nissan Vans
TyroneandGladys
Explorer
May 14, 2013
RobertRyan wrote:
skipnchar wrote:
They can put amy size C they WANT on an F series truck.

My point.You can run a F550 base with any size of Motorhome on it. I think in the future it they will be diesel engines not Gas.

Area school districts are not buying diesel school buses. Because of the pollution controls on diesels after 2006 the famed reliability of the diesels are no longer there and because of the increased complexity repair cost are much higher. As far as the new Ford 6.7 diesel engine there are fuel system issues that to my understanding is very expensive and not covered under warranty.
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pnichols
Explorer II
May 14, 2013
Probably one of the reasons that the E350 and E450 chassis are/were so good for Class C motorhomes is because they came from a basic design originally intended for the delivery van market - where one did not want to have truck floors too high off the ground so as to facilitate convenient loading/unloading of cargo. Hence, their fairly heavy cargo ratings combined with only 16 inch rimed tires - which keeps their profiles low.

If you move to the F450/F550 series for Class C motorhomes, you get the big step-ups into both their cabs and their coach areas... perhaps not too good for the folks with bad backs, hips, knees, etc.. In our case it's all the DW can do to get up into our E450 based Class C motorhome - even with it's automatic step and additional portable platform I set up outside.

We'll take an E450 motorhome over an F450 motorhome any day. HOWEVER, you add 4WD onto an E450 and it's height goes right up to about match that of a 2WD F450. Order an F450 with 4WD and the height of it's frame probably doesn't increase much over that of the 2WD version.
Bobbo
Explorer III
May 14, 2013
skipnchar wrote:
They can put amy size C they WANT on an F series truck.

I actually wish my C was on an F450 instead of an E450. More leg room since the engine is up front under the hood.
pnichols
Explorer II
May 14, 2013
tatest wrote:
The fact that larger RVs are available in Europe does not refute the fact that FWD works because the FWD motorhomes are small.

That's absolutely the case ideally ... you want the wheels with the most weight of the vehicle on them to be the drive wheels. FWD works well in a passenger vehicle because the heaviest components of the vehicle (the engine and the transmission) are over the drive wheels.

One can "get by" with a FWD motorhome where the bulk of it's weight is over the un-driven rear wheels, but it wouldn't do well in situations where surface traction is compromised. I wouldn't want any compromises in motorhome traction if the motorhome is only 2WD and if one wanted to RV offroad in the summer ... or on any roads in the winter.

Note that the Corvair and VW beetle where also excellent on winter roads because of the engine and transmission being located over the driven wheels. ;)
tatest
Explorer II
May 14, 2013
RobertRyan wrote:
tatest wrote:
don't see the market for US-style C's, 24 to 30+ feet and 14,000+ GVWRs,

I would disagree with that. We have now 26ft NORMAL C's based on Euro based Cab Chassis. As well 31ft Class C's based on light Japanese Trucks. Class C's are restricted to roughly 30-31ft here(Caravan park camping) as far as GVWR/GCVWR the sky is the limit for the base donor vehicles are numerous.(i.e 20,000lb towing)
FWD and small engines work in Europe because the motorhomes on those chassis aren't any heavier, and not much taller or wider, than our full-size SUVs. About 30% larger than our minivans.

Neither is that the case. Depends on who builds them. The maximum GVWR of a Ducato is 11,000lb. The IVECO Daily powered Concorde Liner has a GVWR of 15,000lb a Payload of 3000lb and a towing capacity of a 5000lb with a Automatic.

carringb wrote:
Ducato/Pormaster is FWD. Not way would you be able to pull a 30'+ coach up any sort of a grade without madly spinning the tires.

You are taking what I said out of context, to argue against something I didn't say. The fact that larger RVs are available in Europe does not refute the fact that FWD works because the FWD motorhomes are small.

What you have in Australia does not have much to do with where the market might go in the U.S., particularly if the current EPA schedule for reduction in fuel consumption holds, and exceptions are not made for niche markets like RVs.
mlts22
Explorer II
May 14, 2013
RobertRyan wrote:

The Promaster or Ducato has a Automated Manual Transmission or AMT . This acts like an Automatic with default clutchless manual changes. Has a tow/haul and hill descent modes. The Promaster is limited too roughly 27ft with parallel duallys and a 11,000lb GVWR.

Not in the US (linky):

The gasser will get a Chrysler 62TE, which is a hydraulic auto transmission.

The diesel model will be the Fiat MT-40 which is a completely manual transmission (no "D"), except doesn't use a clutch pedal.

No AMT offerings. Hopefully I'm wrong or misreading something.
RobertRyan
Explorer
May 14, 2013
skipnchar wrote:
They can put amy size C they WANT on an F series truck.

My point.You can run a F550 base with any size of Motorhome on it. I think in the future it they will be diesel engines not Gas.
skipnchar
Explorer
May 14, 2013
They can put amy size C they WANT on an F series truck.