Trained VS taught ?

Now that you have a better understanding of why she bared her teeth, you can work with her to change how she feels in that situation.

Yes, baring her teeth is a warning. But she shouldn't need to warn you simply because you are standing over her while she eats. That reaction is inappropriate for the situation (if that is all you were doing at the time).

Growling is different. Some dogs are vocal. Some have play growls or happy talk. But there is always a difference between "I'm having fun" or "I'm happy" and "I'm scared/stressed". Knowing the difference in those vocalizations is very important.

When the dog gives the "I'm scared/stressed" vocalization, you need to figure out why and determine if it is an appropriate reaction. If they vocalize because there is someone sneaking around the RV, then that's appropriate. If they vocalize because you put a leash on them, then that's inappropriate. In that situation, you have to teach them that the leash is not something to be afraid of.

To me this thread turned to a really interesting subject. I see two trains of thought. The trainers who think all dog actions mean the same and the teachers who allow their dogs to think. I think Toedtoes hit the reason for the bared teeth. I was standing beside(over) her. No growl with the teeth. No, she's not a smiler. Paws4me kind of summarized the whole idea of freedom of thought for dogs.. At play time she will flop over on her back for a belly rub but during the attention she will constantly growl. I figure it something as a cat purr but to some it's still a growl. "Growls are bad?" When we first brought her home, she growled at our resident Pit and he growled back. Confrontation solved. He's the dominant one. Wouldn't it be great if humans were that smart? She will steal the other dog's food but not his. When I was about 12 y.o. I went to a friends house, they weren't home so I went to the back yard to pet their two shepherds who knew me. I was too dumb to think about them not looking directly at me but out of the corner of their eye. I almost lost a thumb so now I make sure the eyes are focused. From my take of this subject there are still trainers and teachers but the bottom line is the individual dog. They are each different as individual humans. They all have a way to express themselves, if given the opportunity. I've never known a dog to show affection as this 110# teddy bear does and if she shows her teeth or growls I'll chalk it up to her intelligence to communicate. Mental communication is a whole 'nother subject.. Thanks for all your input. You've sent some interesting posts.. :)

It's not that you should "train the growl" out of the dog, it's that you should train/teach your dog that such things are not to be feared.

For example, if the dog growls when a child approaches, then the dog is exhibiting fear, anxiety, etc., over that child. You don't teach the dog not to growl around the child; you teach the dog not to be afraid of that child. As the dog's fear/anxiety is reduced, the growling disappears - however, if something does scare the dog, he can growl a warning.

The growling is a reaction to a situation (in the OP's situation, it appears it was caused due to the manner in which the OP "gave the dog hell"). It's not the growling that is dangerous - it's the fear/anxiety behind the growl and that is what must be resolved.

Most dogs growl if they feel cornered, vulnerable, and in danger. A dog should never have to feel that way. My Bat-dog has a fear of people. I do everything possible to ensure she does not feel that way around people. If she does, I do not reprimand her - I begin working on teaching her that she does not need to be afraid in those situations. At first she was afraid if someone was in her presence - now she if fine with people standing around us. She still gets scared if she feels surrounded by people, so I make sure she has a visible "escape route". Her growling decreases as her progress increases.

Each one of my dogs have learned or been trained differently. I have yet to have two with the same personality, behavior, or patterns. Even with the basic commands of sit, come, leave it, your done each one has a different reaction. I tend to try and teach or train each dog enough to keep them safe and the rest they learn on their own. Most of the time I think they are training me!

As for the growling I agree that in and of itself it is not necessarily bad. I had a Queensland Chow mix and lived in an apartment where barking would no have been appreciated. My girl would bark and I would correct her and tell her to use an inside voice. Her inside voice became a growl and we went with that. Now when the growl became deep and the hair on her neck stood up, like when a cat walked across the fence, you knew she was giving an aggression warning which was followed with a your done command.

rockhillmanor wrote:
Each and every a time a dog is allowed to growl, and/or snarl, and NOT be corrected, his thoughts are that he has gotten away with it and then files it as an acceptable behavior.

That dog is a time bombing ticking and 'will' eventually go off and seriously harm another dog or worse yet a human.

IMHO I find no humor in a dog barring it's teeth at ANY time.:R

It's a very common and very dangerous misconception that dogs should always be corrected for baring teeth or growling.
The very last thing I ever want to do is to teach a dog to not give a warning.

:E
So let me get this straight. You allow them to growl and bare their teeth so that you have some sort of warning when the dog is getting ready to perhaps rip a child apart or attack another dog?

Aggressive behavior of ANY kind is NOT acceptable in a house pet.

And BTW a fear biter gives absolutely no warning before attacking. So your theory doesn't hold true for all dogs. :W

Certainly fear biters give warning. But you have to understand dogs well enough to know what the warning signs are. They're usually loud and clear.

Growling or baring teeth are NOT aggressive behaviors in and of themselves. They're simply a couple of the very few ways dogs have to communicate.

Each and every a time a dog is allowed to growl, and/or snarl, and NOT be corrected, his thoughts are that he has gotten away with it and then files it as an acceptable behavior.

That dog is a time bombing ticking and 'will' eventually go off and seriously harm another dog or worse yet a human.

IMHO I find no humor in a dog barring it's teeth at ANY time.:R

It's a very common and very dangerous misconception that dogs should always be corrected for baring teeth or growling.
The very last thing I ever want to do is to teach a dog to not give a warning.

:E
So let me get this straight. You allow them to growl and bare their teeth so that you have some sort of warning when the dog is getting ready to perhaps rip a child apart or attack another dog?

Aggressive behavior of ANY kind is NOT acceptable in a house pet.

And BTW a fear biter gives absolutely no warning before attacking. So your theory doesn't hold true for all dogs. :W

pulsar wrote:


As an aside, I suspect that Jerrybo66 would not use "bared her teeth to me" to describe a smiling dog. (I assume he knows the difference.)

Tom

If it was truly an aggressive or dominant display of teeth - then I fully agree with Donn. While I support letting a dog's personality shine through - it had better shine "politely". Bared teeth as aggression is never a good thing.

"Trained" versus "taught" sounds like a semantics question.

We start teaching our puppies "tricks" as soon as we get them home. Some of the tricks are silly, many are foreshadows of skills we will want them to have later. (For example, they learn to turn left or turn right from both verbal commands and hand signals. That will be useful when they start agility.)

We teach our dogs to track as soon as we get them home. Here is Breeze at 10 weeks.



Our puppies learn to "find mine", where they have a choice of similar objects (we start with socks) and they are suppose to bring me the one with my scent (or Sarah's if she is the one handling the training session.)

I will second kalynzoo's recommendation of 101 Dog Tricks. The engagement, challenging, and bonding with the puppies and older dogs is what it's about. For most, the tricks will be secondary. For some, they will be useful in more advanced work.

As an aside, I suspect that Jerrybo66 would not use "bared her teeth to me" to describe a smiling dog. (I assume he knows the difference.)

Tom

I disagree with feeding the dogs separate. That avoids the food issue rather than correcting it. I have a food protector and a slow eater. I feed them together and Bat-dog (food protector) has learned that Moose-dog's (slow eater) bowl isn't for her and she eats what's in her bowl and let's him eat his as slow as he wants.

The number one rule is that they have to sit if they want anything - food, toy, etc. Then on the command of "OK", they can start eating out of the bowl (or take the treat/toy out of my hands). At the beginning, after Bat-dog finished eating (yes, I stood in the kitchen while she ate), Bat-dog would try to go for his food; I'd tell her no, take her by the collar and bring her to the living to sit with me. After a few meals, she started to just watch him while he ate, then would come with me on her own. After a few more meals, she just ignored him completely and did her own thing.

In a 21ft motorhome, it is required that they (both 85lbs) can eat in close quarters without issue - they have mastered that even though she's a protector and he's the slowest eater in the world.

Pawz4me wrote:

xteacher wrote:

Jerrybo66 wrote:
I guess this is a moot subject but the other day I was giving her hell for eating the other dogs food. After a minute or so she bared her teeth to me. How do you correct a dog while laughing. Her thought. "ok I'm bad, get over it".

Dogs are pack animals and therefore look to their pack leader for guidance. The fact that your dog bared her teeth at you when you corrected her shows that she doesn't respect you as her pack leader. When a dog feels a lack of leadership, they often make the move to become the pack leader (normal animal behavior). This behavior is unacceptable and dangerous in a household situation. Please don't let children around her when she's eating. I would also feed your dogs in separate rooms or in their crates (use a closed door or baby gate to keep the rottie from getting to the other dog's food since she finishes first). Your other dog deserves the freedom to eat in peace and safety.

It's a very common and very dangerous misconception that dogs should always be corrected for baring teeth or growling.

The very last thing I ever want to do is to teach a dog to not give a warning. I never want to take away the only means a dog has to say "hey, this makes me uncomfortable." If I do that I very likely end up with a dog who skips a warning and goes directly to biting/attacking.

It is unacceptable and dangerous to have a dog who does NOT give a warning when he/she feels uncomfortable.

It's fine to work on correcting whatever caused the warning to be issued (and is, in fact, what one should do).

I agree that growling should not be trained out of a dog; that will produce a dog that will bite without warning. I was also not suggesting that the OP get physical with this dog - bad idea! Instead, I'd feed the dog away from the other dog, and feed the other dog in a protected place where the rottie can't reach him/her or the other dog's food. Better yet, I'd feed both dogs in their crates, placing their bowls so they're facing away from each other, and not let either one out until feeding time was over. Prevention is the key, IMO.