300 feet of Underground Cat6 ???

Gene&Ginny wrote:

Gdetrailer wrote:
...This should say it all..

THICKNET

That link SAYS IT IS OBSOLETE......

Yes, that device IS obsolete.

There is a whole new generation of coax devices that convert Ethernet packets to RF over the coax using a different frequency band for each direction to maintain full duplex (send receive at the same time) operation. You can get a pair of devices for just about $100.

Thank you. A least you also understand that just because it's coax it doesn't mean 10base5.

Gdetrailer wrote:
...This should say it all..

THICKNET

That link SAYS IT IS OBSOLETE......

Yes, that device IS obsolete.

There is a whole new generation of coax devices that convert Ethernet packets to RF over the coax using a different frequency band for each direction to maintain full duplex (send receive at the same time) operation. You can get a pair of devices for just about $100.

Cat 5e direct burial cable costs about 15 cents/ft. 300 ft would be $45. Cat e jacks are about $5ea, two (one for each end) would be $10. You would need a patch cable at each end about $10 ea., $20 for two. 300 ft of 1" poly tubing is about 30 cents per foot,$90.

Total cost $45 + $10 + $20 + $90 = $165 Total Cost

joebedford wrote:

Gdetrailer wrote:
As older_fossil sort of mentioned, Coax USED to be used, it IS OBSOLETE.

It is NOT OBSOLETE.

It is much more difficult use in most environments so it isn't used there (where it used to be). However, for a long span (say more than a mile) it's what I would use. Cat 5/6 would be much more problematic.

This should say it all..

THICKNET

That link SAYS IT IS OBSOLETE.

MORE

This link SAYs..

“10Base5 (ThickNet - "Frozen Garden Hose") Connections
Cable Type: Heavy duty co-axial (50W), approximately 9.5mm or 10.3mm diameter
Maximum segment length: 500m
Maximum nodes per segment: 100
Terminators must be placed at both ends of the segment
The ancient 10Base5 cable was coined as "Frozen Garden Hose" due to the large, barely flexible coax cable. The direct connection to the end station is a DB-15 socket is called AUI (Attachment Unit Interface). It's very name implies it requires an "attachment unit" to be connected to it . . . i.e., a converter called a Transceiver. The transceiver can be directly connected to the DB-15 socket, or an AUI cable can be used. The AUI cable length, due to poor cross-talk, should be at least 2.5 M but not more than 50 M.”


Thicknet for NEW INSTALLATIONS for all intents and purposes IS OBSOLETE..

To setup Thicknet you NEED RG-8 coax which is nearly ½ inch in diameter at about $.80 per ft.

You NEED “N” connectors which are not cheap nor an easy install for the novice at $2 each.

You NEED “terminators for each end, can’t find them for sale but I will guess $5 each..

You NEED a “TAP” to AUI connection (not cheap and hard to find new, manufacturers have ceased production so what is available is NOS, used or refurbed) for $90 or more (you will need one for each tap needed). Vampire taps require a special tool to tap into the coax.

You NEED a “AUI” cable at about $10, you will need one for each tap.

You NEED a “AUI” to transceiver which converts the AUI to twisted pair OR a twisted pair hub with “AUI” connection (these hubs ONLY come in 10 Mbps speed) OR a NIC card with AUI… transceiver cost is $40, you will need one for each tap..

Nic card with AUI, no longer made..

Network hub with AUI $20-$30

There are also very specific rules that pertain to how close the taps can be placed to the termination that need to be followed.

All that and your max distance is 1,600 ft AND LESS THAN 10Mbps..
So, lets add up the cost..

1600ft of RG-8 is $1280
2 “N” connectors at $4
2 Terminators at $10
2 Taps to AUI at $180
2 AUI cables at $20
2 AUI to twisted pair Transceivers at $80
$1574 to go 1,600 ft or about $.98 per ft, WITHOUT SHIPPING COSTS OF 1,600 FT of RG-8!

Scaled down to the OPs need of 300ft

RG-8 would be $240 and total cost would be $534, WITHOUT SHIPPING COSTS OF 300ft of RG-8!

Now twisted pair cat5e cable costs $.05 per ft, ends cost $.06 each

Ethernet repeaters can be bought for as little as $80.

OPs need of 300ft would cost $15 for wire, $.12 for ends and $80 for a repeater for a grand total of $95.12..

However, the OP DOES NOT need a repeater for 300ft so actual cost is $15.12 or $.0504 per ft! A far cry from $.98 per ft for the Thicknet solution!

AND the OP CAN get 1 gigabit speed up to 2,000 ft (up to 6,000 ft at 100 Mbps) and at a cost of only $.32 per ft including the repeater..

For an existing network that is hobbled at 10 Mbps thicknet MIGHT make sense but in the real modern day world it is a dinosaur in speed, if I was faced with an existing thicknet I would be switching it over to twisted pair if it failed in a heartbeat. The cost to convert to twisted pair is less expensive than buying old thicknet parts and that IS including MATERIAL AND INSTALLATION costs..

I can’t imagine even trying to retrieve web based email, it would be a very slow tedious painful process if accessing it from the WWW or internal web based mail servers..

Thicknet is TEN TIMES SLOWER than a 54 mbps wifi connection. A webpage that takes 1 second on 54 Mbps wifi would take FIFTY SECONDS to load on Thicknet.. Pretty much EVERYTHING now days is “web based”, even within many companies if it isn’t web based it will be in a few years.. Every year passing by, less and less legacy applications will be non web based. Companies will eventually be forced to upgrade their systems as hardware fails..

My company hasn’t shipped ANYTHING with Thicknet or even thinnet capability for 15+ years (and I have been with the same company for 17 years)..

Coax is not “superior” for noise rejection, twisted pair actually has a much higher “common mode” noise rejection due to the use of “balanced lines” and is the reason it can operate perfectly fine without a shield. Noise imposed across the paired wire is IGNORED since the network cards input is looking for a DIFFERENCE IN VOLTAGE BETWEEN the wires of that pair. Noise appears as the SAME voltage on both wires of the pair.

Coax by it’s nature is what is known as an UNBALANCED line, unbalanced lines cannot determine between noise and actual real data and is highly dependant on the SHEILDING (which is only 80%-90% shielding, not 100%) to reduce the stray noise.

Unbalance lines also have a very nasty habit of creating what is known as “ground loops”. The shield of the coax is connected on BOTH ends of the run. This shield also gets GROUNDED through your networking equipment on BOTH ENDS. This creates small currents to flow through the shield since it is NOT at the same earth ground potential..That current creates small but very destructive to data voltages across the shield.. It is for that reason you don’t see long runs of unbalanced microphones in audio work..

Although the link below talks about audio, it holds true for DATA..

Balanced vs unbalance lines

Let the knuckle dragging Neanderthal Thicknet and thinnet dinosaur rest..

The nice thing with fiber is that if you use a single mode converter on each end, you can go miles without worry about signal loss. To boot, if you decide to change from Ethernet, you just replace the transceivers... fiber wiring has a lot more bandwidth than copper, so when 40GB or 100GB Ethernet becomes a standard, just replace the endpoints and you are updated.

As what Heap64 said, there are no electrical issues with fiber, and you can buy rodent resistant fiber optic cables as well.

mlts22 wrote:
What about buying two fiber to copper converters, and burying a fiber optic cable? The converters are not expensive and can go up to 10gigE with ease.

That's what we ended up doing about 20 years ago at a site we had hardware zapped twice.

The first time it took out the the switch and network card in the workstation. The second attempt took out a RJ45 surge protector. After going to fiber with media converters it worked ok after that. I left that company so I don't know how long?

We get a lot of lightning around here.

What about buying two fiber to copper converters, and burying a fiber optic cable? The converters are not expensive and can go up to 10gigE with ease.

rockhillmanor wrote:



Had tech out 4 times couldn't find a problem. 5th guy crawled right under the deck and sure enough where the cable comes up out of the ground the critters had chewed it. Then they started actually digging it up under the deck for more munching. :R

There is a chemical in the coating that actually 'attracts' animals to it. Go figure.

Off subject: I had a critter eat a hole in a flexible (rubber) propane hose the day after I had filled a 40lb tank.

LittleBill wrote:
cat 6 at 300 feet will be faster then anything he can do wirelessly(cost effective), also gigabit uses all 4 pairs.

if you have animals, put it in conduit. the electrical under my deck was eaten twice

when the last guy owned the house. everything went in this time in EMT.

if you bury deep enough you will be fine, i have some electrical 3 feet down that is not protect and is original to the house 72'good luck

You must have bought my house!! :B

Mine came in over 300 ft and it was fine BUT the animals were the culprits for no reception.

Had tech out 4 times couldn't find a problem. 5th guy crawled right under the deck and sure enough where the cable comes up out of the ground the critters had chewed it. Then they started actually digging it up under the deck for more munching. :R

There is a chemical in the coating that actually 'attracts' animals to it. Go figure.

EoC (Ethernet over coax) is only used within buildings and is an attempt to use cable TV or Satellite cabling to provide Ethernet in the same building. We have tried the HPNA version and found it very difficult to maintain reliable connections.

It is simple, use CAT 5e, CAT 6 or fiber up to 100 meters (327 ft) or fiber for longer distances. Cat 6 has some advantage when using POE (power over Ethernet) to power end devices as it use 23 gauge wire rather than 24 gauge wire.