Need to replace the bat wing antenna

Last week I was on a site in upstate NY where my batwing was picking up all of the stations in the Albany, NY market, plus a couple from the Utica, NY market off the back side. My neighbor was complaining that his "newest,latest and greatest digital antenna" was only seeing two of the four Albany market major network stations. Yep, he had a Jack, and the two network stations he couldn't get were both on VHF, one low and one high. He was not happy when he saw what we were getting with our "old fashioned" batwing.

Timely thread for me since I was about to go out and buy a shiny object to replace my Batwing. Not now. I've followed Jeff and Bill's advice many times over the years and it is always spot on. I'll stick with the old....except for, maybe, a Sensar Pro like WA8 says...another gent that always has good advice.

And to those who continually cite "real world", inferring that my testing wasn't.. Those tests were done on the Class A listed in the Sig, a long way from any sources of interference or other local transmitters that could contaminate the test, and a long way from Mt. Wilson. The analyzer was plugged into the output of a splitter, the same one feeding the other TV's in the coach. I don't know how much more empirical it can get ? So given that, once again... The numbers don't lie. I bought that antenna to change it out if the Batwing didn't measure up. But the Jack didn't match up on anything, and still doesn't.
I run into people occasionally up at the beach and am able to compare my now 11 year old Batwing with others running Jack's on their RV's. Over the years, none have beat the Batwing for looking at both LA stations as well as those across the water from San Diego. O well....

Well, you guys with the RF expertise have presented your case admirably but some will never believe science. Thanks to the experts, I've built several 11m antennas that talked and listened around the world. A 4 element 11m quad at 50' is a sight to behold. Ah the good ol days. (breaker breaker) We all know that size is king on antennas. The ol Batwing presents far more tuned surface to RF than a Jack does. Nuf said. Now I need to go out back and break my crow bar in the sand pile, so I'll look normal and not stand out in this crowd.
Mex is my idol.

Richard

wa8yxm wrote:
The Jack is "Easy to aim" Because it's a shotgun as opposed to a rifle The thing has a far wider "Beam width" on the main lobe..

Oh, Beamwidth and Gain..
Think opera Glasses. perhaps 2 or 3 power But a WIDE field of vision Now a nice set of Field Glasses. with say 10x or more magnification.. But a much narrower field at the same distance

Sometime a shotgun is the right choice.

With digital TVs, where you have to scan to find channels, the shotgun approach may be better, especially if you camp within a reasonable distance of metro areas. Point the antenna toward the city, scan, and get a bunch of channels which you can choose from.

Contrast that to a rifle. Point it toward the city. Scan, and pick up fewer channels. Move it a bit to the left, scan, you pick up a few new ones, but lose some you had before. Repeat.

Sure, if you're in the boonies, then the long distance capabilities of the rifle may make a hit or miss difference. Want a different channel? Move the antenna and do another 2 minute scan on the TV.

It can be a personal preference depending on where one camps and what the expectations are. Neither is "better" than the other, they're just different. Each has its place.

Sometimes you want to enjoy the opera, not just watch the fat lady.

The Jack is "Easy to aim" Because it's a shotgun as opposed to a rifle The thing has a far wider "Beam width" on the main lobe.. Of course it comes with teh Sur-Lock which is a piece of junk in my expert opinion as well (yes I am a certified expert in this kind of thing).

The Sensar Pro makes the Sur Lock look like a child's toy as it does the same job MUCH MUCH better, provides far more user info and gives the user a bunch of options teh Sur-Lock does not have.

In lab testing the WORST a Batwing did (And that was a Sensar III or II without Wingman) was twice the signal of the Jack.. that was the WORST. Adding the wingman did much better and again teh Snesar pro improves it even more.

Oh, Beamwidth and Gain..
Think opera Glasses. perhaps 2 or 3 power But a WIDE field of vision

Now a nice set of Field Glasses. with say 10x or more magnification.. But a much narrower field at the same distance

Same with TV antennas. . Antenna GAIN is obtained by narrowing the beam width.. The sharper the "Focus" the greater the range.

In case anyone is referring to me, I do not work for the company. I did for awhile but have not in about 3 years. I also tested nearly all of their new antennas and when I was let go I was "stuck" with one of their Rayzor style antennas (not sure they even make it any longer) but I sure wish I had my Batwing back. I keep parking in places where the TV signal is on the VHF frequencies and this thing is just short of worthless for that.

I guess that I am in that OTHER CAMP with a lot of others.
The techies like Jeff and others that work in the field,even one that works for the company that makes the Batwing have the same tune.And yes I have seen the tests that Jeff made.

When I bought my RV it had a Batwing that was not working, I cleaned up all connections and tested to see if it was broken, it was,so I replaced it with a new bat wing then ran a Channel Scan I was not impressed with the amount of channels that I got. This was done in my driveway here in the south bay of So Calif about 30 miles from the transmitters, using my SensarPro.

I then went out and got a Wingman add on, that put my channel scan up to 47,but I had a clearance problem with the Wingman

So I opted to put a Jack on and my channel scan went up to 60

The debate will go on and on but I know what works best for me,in the real world.

LarryJM wrote:

ScottG wrote:
King Controls Jack Ant. It blows my old batwing out of the water.
There was nothing worng with my old batwing, I just wanted better reception in the boonies - and I got it.
It works so good I'm considering getting one for my sticks and bricks and ditching cable..

Then there was something WRONG with your old Batwing since there is no way a Jack is superior to a Batwing for reception.

Larry

Well Larry, it simply was better. The old ant. worked fine (same as previous TT bat wing), but when in remote locations in Eastern wa. I was able to get several more stations at CG's we frequent there.
I believe this is because the Jack is so easy to aim.

You may not like it, but that's the reality.

For replacement:
Winegard Sensar IV (Batwing with wingman)
Sensar Pro for the wall plate.

Nothing designed for RV use beats the Sensar IV
And there is no better indoor module than the Sensar Pro