Opinions regarding improving WiFi at campgrounds

paulcardoza wrote:
So, if fiber broadband was available to you location for $400/mo with 500mps down and 100mps up, it would not be an option in your view?

westernrvparkowner wrote:

paulcardoza wrote:
No doubt Maxi. I stated right in the beginning that I don't have a clue what a typical CG spends on TengoInternet per month. Not their Wifi access points, just for the Tengointernet service. You might think that westernrvparkowner might chime in and give us some clue of what his costs are for whatever pipeline he has, but he instead simply poopoo's every idea as unrealistic or too expensive.

Maybe TengoInternet is free to CG's? I doubt it, but again, I don't know. What I do know is that were available, fiber broadband is ~$400/mo at the fastest available speed. IMO, $400/mo for a CG that has 400-500 sites, sounds reasonable. Consider on top of that, the fact that their wifi access point setup is already in place and top-of-the-line. You can claim I'm wrong, but without knowing the numbers of the current offering, your claims are only opinions, just as mine are. At least I have some hard information to back up my numbers..........

I don't use Tengo and don't know their pricing structure, but they used to offer the setup infrastructure for free in exchange for setting up pay for usage which Tengo gets a big cut of, or they had plans for providing the park infrastructure for a monthly fee paid by the park. They do not provide any backhaul, they just connect to what is available. Costs to my parks vary, since there are different carriers. But my backhaul runs several hundred a month for 12 mbs down and 3 mbs up. All the access points, antennas and support is on me. Like I said earlier, that works fine for 99% of my customers. I wouldn't spend significantly more money for a faster system since it wouldn't add to my customer satisfaction or my bottom line. It is better for me and my bottom line if the ultra high bandwidth user goes elsewhere. And yes, all my reservation employees are trained to turn away people who let us know upfront that high speed, big bandwidth internet is necessary. We simply tell them our parks will not be able to meet their wifi needs.

It would come down to the fine print and whether or not that is really the price. Just because your business gets it for that fee, doesn't mean a re-transmitting business, like an RV park would get it for the same price. Also, just because it is available at one address doesn't make it available next door. For example, in Kansas City, they are rolling out Google Fiber. It is ONLY available for residential usage. They are prohibiting business signups.
My rates for the RV parks are multiple times more expensive than their advertised commercial rates because I re-distribute the access. It is seldom as black and white as most people believe.
To directly answer your question, yes, I would sign up for such a service based on what I currently spend for what I get. It could be a whole lot different for the park where you are staying. Maybe they have a great rate (say $100 a month) and a long term contract with hefty cancellation penalties. I wouldn't upgrade if it cost me an additional $300 a month, that would be $3600 out of my pocket that wouldn't benefit the vast majority of my guests or bring in any more guests. It would be money wasted.

So, if fiber broadband was available to you location for $400/mo with 500mps down and 100mps up, it would not be an option in your view?

westernrvparkowner wrote:

paulcardoza wrote:
No doubt Maxi. I stated right in the beginning that I don't have a clue what a typical CG spends on TengoInternet per month. Not their Wifi access points, just for the Tengointernet service. You might think that westernrvparkowner might chime in and give us some clue of what his costs are for whatever pipeline he has, but he instead simply poopoo's every idea as unrealistic or too expensive.

Maybe TengoInternet is free to CG's? I doubt it, but again, I don't know. What I do know is that were available, fiber broadband is ~$400/mo at the fastest available speed. IMO, $400/mo for a CG that has 400-500 sites, sounds reasonable. Consider on top of that, the fact that their wifi access point setup is already in place and top-of-the-line. You can claim I'm wrong, but without knowing the numbers of the current offering, your claims are only opinions, just as mine are. At least I have some hard information to back up my numbers..........

I don't use Tengo and don't know their pricing structure, but they used to offer the setup infrastructure for free in exchange for setting up pay for usage which Tengo gets a big cut of, or they had plans for providing the park infrastructure for a monthly fee paid by the park. They do not provide any backhaul, they just connect to what is available. Costs to my parks vary, since there are different carriers. But my backhaul runs several hundred a month for 12 mbs down and 3 mbs up. All the access points, antennas and support is on me. Like I said earlier, that works fine for 99% of my customers. I wouldn't spend significantly more money for a faster system since it wouldn't add to my customer satisfaction or my bottom line. It is better for me and my bottom line if the ultra high bandwidth user goes elsewhere. And yes, all my reservation employees are trained to turn away people who let us know upfront that high speed, big bandwidth internet is necessary. We simply tell them our parks will not be able to meet their wifi needs.

paulcardoza wrote:
No doubt Maxi. I stated right in the beginning that I don't have a clue what a typical CG spends on TengoInternet per month. Not their Wifi access points, just for the Tengointernet service. You might think that westernrvparkowner might chime in and give us some clue of what his costs are for whatever pipeline he has, but he instead simply poopoo's every idea as unrealistic or too expensive.

Maybe TengoInternet is free to CG's? I doubt it, but again, I don't know. What I do know is that were available, fiber broadband is ~$400/mo at the fastest available speed. IMO, $400/mo for a CG that has 400-500 sites, sounds reasonable. Consider on top of that, the fact that their wifi access point setup is already in place and top-of-the-line. You can claim I'm wrong, but without knowing the numbers of the current offering, your claims are only opinions, just as mine are. At least I have some hard information to back up my numbers..........

I don't use Tengo and don't know their pricing structure, but they used to offer the setup infrastructure for free in exchange for setting up pay for usage which Tengo gets a big cut of, or they had plans for providing the park infrastructure for a monthly fee paid by the park. They do not provide any backhaul, they just connect to what is available. Costs to my parks vary, since there are different carriers. But my backhaul runs several hundred a month for 12 mbs down and 3 mbs up. All the access points, antennas and support is on me. Like I said earlier, that works fine for 99% of my customers. I wouldn't spend significantly more money for a faster system since it wouldn't add to my customer satisfaction or my bottom line. It is better for me and my bottom line if the ultra high bandwidth user goes elsewhere. And yes, all my reservation employees are trained to turn away people who let us know upfront that high speed, big bandwidth internet is necessary. We simply tell them our parks will not be able to meet their wifi needs.

paulcardoza wrote:
No doubt Maxi. I stated right in the beginning that I don't have a clue what a typical CG spends on TengoInternet per month. Not their Wifi access points, just for the Tengointernet service. You might think that westernrvparkowner might chime in and give us some clue of what his costs are for whatever pipeline he has, but he instead simply poopoo's every idea as unrealistic or too expensive.

Maybe TengoInternet is free to CG's? I doubt it, but again, I don't know. What I do know is that were available, fiber broadband is ~$400/mo at the fastest available speed. IMO, $400/mo for a CG that has 400-500 sites, sounds reasonable. Consider on top of that, the fact that their wifi access point setup is already in place and top-of-the-line. You can claim I'm wrong, but without knowing the numbers of the current offering, your claims are only opinions, just as mine are. At least I have some hard information to back up my numbers..........

You don't know what this fiber service would charge a campground with 400 - 500 sites . Bigger strain on their network than a normal commercial customer. Also they would then be viewed as a reseller . Also tougher to control the amount of bandwidth being used .And how those users are using said bandwidth . Don't forget the providers are now being charged by the government to enforce the DMCA.

No doubt Maxi. I stated right in the beginning that I don't have a clue what a typical CG spends on TengoInternet per month. Not their Wifi access points, just for the Tengointernet service. You might think that westernrvparkowner might chime in and give us some clue of what his costs are for whatever pipeline he has, but he instead simply poopoo's every idea as unrealistic or too expensive.

Maybe TengoInternet is free to CG's? I doubt it, but again, I don't know. What I do know is that were available, fiber broadband is ~$400/mo at the fastest available speed. IMO, $400/mo for a CG that has 400-500 sites, sounds reasonable. Consider on top of that, the fact that their wifi access point setup is already in place and top-of-the-line. You can claim I'm wrong, but without knowing the numbers of the current offering, your claims are only opinions, just as mine are. At least I have some hard information to back up my numbers..........

paulcardoza wrote:
This is for BUSINESS CLASS SERVICE, not residential. The company provides the router, which is not simply wifi but includes WAN ports. In our office, it is running BOTH our WAN and wifi, serving 200+ people.
And if you read previous posts, you'll see that the CG already has a super wifi access point setup in place, so that is already sunk cost. If you're going to challenge my opinion, please at least read and understand the thread first. You're just making me repeat myself.

Maxi Signal wrote:

The fiber company provides the router ? Yes a router that will cover the building it is in . No you have to get commercial routers and wire multiple access points throughout the park to properly cover an rv park . And you still are not going to make everyone happy . If it was only as easy as you seem to think it is. Most RV parks would go for it.

If you feel this strongly about it . Perhaps you should invest in the RV park . And help the owner with this project . It is never as easy as it seems . Also as another poster pointed out if it is a northern RV park . They only 3 to 5 months a year to try a recoup all expenditures . Tough to tell someone else how to run a business when you don't see the books .
I tried to convince a friend of mine that it would be great to offer free wifi at his seasonal ice cream shop (in the middle of tourist area ) . When he showed me the cost and how he only had 5 months a year to recoup all the costs especially the backhaul he has to pay for 12 months of the year it did not look like such a great idea anymore.

Seriously Maxi..... Please read and understand the thread before making further comments. These points have already been discussed.

I'm flabbergasted by the lack of forward thinking here. The world is changing, whether we aging RV'ers like it or not. Technology is advancing by leaps and bounds. To simply say that camping should not include technology and expect everyone to simply fall in line, is head in the sand thinking. Hopefully westernrvparkowner has a CG that is in the middle of nowhere and attracts customers who like just that, because every RV park suggestion that has been thrown his way has been discounted as unreasonable, too expensive, unnecessary, etc., etc., etc..... Times are changing and just like every other industry in the world, RV parks need to change and adapt, or pay the price at some point......

Maxi Signal wrote:

No , don't put words in my mouth . What I am saying is be realistic in your expectations . Some locations just cannot supply the bandwidth you need . Have your own source , as you do . The RV Park owners just cannot supply what some people expect due to location or the finances involved.

This is for BUSINESS CLASS SERVICE, not residential. The company provides the router, which is not simply wifi but includes WAN ports. In our office, it is running BOTH our WAN and wifi, serving 200+ people.
And if you read previous posts, you'll see that the CG already has a super wifi access point setup in place, so that is already sunk cost. If you're going to challenge my opinion, please at least read and understand the thread first. You're just making me repeat myself.

Maxi Signal wrote:

The fiber company provides the router ? Yes a router that will cover the building it is in . No you have to get commercial routers and wire multiple access points throughout the park to properly cover an rv park . And you still are not going to make everyone happy . If it was only as easy as you seem to think it is. Most RV parks would go for it.

docj wrote:

Maxi Signal wrote:

I suggest if someone needs this kind of internet service for their streaming needs , maybe the RV lifestyle is not for them , or find a rv park that can cater to your needs .

What you're doing is telling customers "you really shouldn't want this" and, if you do, we don't want you as customers.

In my experience in marketing, telling customers that they shouldn't want certain features is not an effective way to grow your business. You are assuming that the customers you don't want are in the minority; what you don't seem to realize is that they are a growing minority and eventually will become the majority of your customer base IMO. What you should be doing is preparing for that eventuality or find yourselves with a significantly reduced customer base.

What seems to be lost here is that lots of families who own RVs don't consider what they do to be camping. They view their rigs as rolling hotel rooms; they can enjoy nature all day, but in the evening they want to be "at home." Their requests aren't unreasonable from their perspective; they can stay at most hotels and get free high speed internet, why shouldn't they get it at RV parks? No one is saying that the RV park wifi problem is the same as a hotel's, but by simply saying "it's too expensive" is not a good long-term business strategy IMO.

If the independent "mom and pop" RV park can't afford this type of wifi system, one can envision that the campground business could easily go the way of the highway motel which, over the past several decades has largely changed from independent properties to franchised outlets. If the franchise makes a decision that its properties will have certain amenities, then they will make it happen. The cost of providing an expensive wifi network at one property will be balanced by lower costs at another property. I'd hate to see the small, independent RV park disappear, but it's not difficult to speculate that factors like this could make that happen.

No , don't put words in my mouth . What I am saying is be realistic in your expectations . Some locations just cannot supply the bandwidth you need . Have your own source , as you do . The RV Park owners just cannot supply what some people expect due to location or the finances involved.

Maxi Signal wrote:

I suggest if someone needs this kind of internet service for their streaming needs , maybe the RV lifestyle is not for them , or find a rv park that can cater to your needs .

What you're doing is telling customers "you really shouldn't want this" and, if you do, we don't want you as customers.

In my experience in marketing, telling customers that they shouldn't want certain features is not an effective way to grow your business. You are assuming that the customers you don't want are in the minority; what you don't seem to realize is that they are a growing minority and eventually will become the majority of your customer base IMO. What you should be doing is preparing for that eventuality or find yourselves with a significantly reduced customer base.

What seems to be lost here is that lots of families who own RVs don't consider what they do to be camping. They view their rigs as rolling hotel rooms; they can enjoy nature all day, but in the evening they want to be "at home." Their requests aren't unreasonable from their perspective; they can stay at most hotels and get free high speed internet, why shouldn't they get it at RV parks? No one is saying that the RV park wifi problem is the same as a hotel's, but by simply saying "it's too expensive" is not a good long-term business strategy IMO.

If the independent "mom and pop" RV park can't afford this type of wifi system, one can envision that the campground business could easily go the way of the highway motel which, over the past several decades has largely changed from independent properties to franchised outlets. If the franchise makes a decision that its properties will have certain amenities, then they will make it happen. The cost of providing an expensive wifi network at one property will be balanced by lower costs at another property. I'd hate to see the small, independent RV park disappear, but it's not difficult to speculate that factors like this could make that happen.