Solar discusion thread, is it right for you?

ok so I was waiting to see if anyone would bring in the enviormental impact fo the production of solar panels haha.  

so solar panels off set the enviormental impact from their manufacturing in 4 to 6 years.  then it is all offsetting global co2 emissions.  now let talk generators they require a significant amount of mining, more than solar panels, a genny running under load is producing polution equivalant to a ideling automobile.  then you have the saftey risks of carbon monoxide poisoning, the oil and filter changes ever 100 to 150 hours and so on.  with proper maintenance and care a average genny can last 2000 hours, high quality ones up to 10000 hours.  so depending on how it is run you could be burnign a genny every year on a 8 hour run day.  

so looking at that aspect solar is the winner hands down, but I am not a tree hugger by any means so that was never part of my disision for going solar.  for me it was more of a install and forget type thing, and it was cheeper than a genny.  then the other benifits are its lighter, silent, doesnt take up any storage, and works weather I am parked or driving so you get charging the whole day, not just when you start up the genny.  

Would a true test of one’s solar system be having the opportunity to plug-in and not plugging-in? 

what panels are you using?  some of the newer panels out in the last few years have exceptional shade preformance.  I haven't had anything cut me down to 1/10 of my normal output, usaly I'll get maybe 1/5th if its dark overcast/rain, the kind you would turn your head lights on if you were driving.  I haven't noticed shade make a lot of difference, but thats just because the sun goes directly over head for two or three hours and that lets in it and is enough for alsmost two days power usage.  

Lights? LED lights in my TT take so little juice I don’t even factor in their consumption. 

Storing up enough power to run anything through 3 days of rain is simply a matter of sizing (and money, obviously). How many watt-hours do you need for 3 nights of CPAP? If you plug your CPAP into a Kill-O-Watt for a 3 night total usage, the math is simple.

they were never stupid.  they were only stupid to the people that refused to look at it with open eyes.  the simple fact is every where is looking at some sort of legislation or restriction on generators, wether it be a fuel emissions requirment or a use restriction, its coming and people should look at the options and decide what to do from the start.  

here is one that came out two years ago and is still in effect from up here 

"Generator Use

WHAT: Pursuant to Section 13(a) of the National Parks Camping Regulations, the use of generators is hereby prohibited except between 17:00 and 19:00 daily, by order of the Superintendent.           

WHERE: Snowforest Campground, Loop Brook Campground, Illecillewaet Campground.

PENALTY: Violation of these restrictions/ prohibitions may result in immediate cancellation of your camping permit, eviction from the campground, or charges under the Canada National Parks Act; maximum penalty $25 000. Camping fees will not be refunded.

Start date: 2024-05-06"

so this is BC parks official stance

"Limited fuel generator use hours: To promote a quieter and more serene camping experience, generators can be used between 9-11 a.m. and 6-8 p.m. in front country campgrounds. These hours will be clearly posted and enforced to ensure consideration for fellow campers. "   that was two years ago and since then some parks have been designated generator free.  they state also if it is for medical reasons you want to use a genny, then book a powered site as their are no exceptions." 

this is a overview of whats going on in the USA

"Recreational generators in the USA are facing increasing restrictions focused on three main areas: California-led zero-emission mandates, strict federal safety standards for carbon monoxide (CO), and local campground noise regulations. 

As of 2026, the industry is shifting toward quieter inverter technology and, in some cases, solar-powered alternatives. 

Here is how recreational generators are being restricted:

1. Emission Restrictions (California Leadership)

• Zero-Emission Mandates: The California Air Resources Board (CARB) passed legislation (AB-1346) that requires newly manufactured small off-road engines, including portable generators, to meet zero-emission standards starting in 2028.
• Impact on RVers: This legislation affects not only California residents but also those purchasing RVs with built-in generators in the state. While existing gas generators can still be used, replacing or purchasing new non-compliant units will become difficult within California.
• Interim Rules: Through June 30, 2025, California eased requirements to allow EPA-certified generators to be sold to meet high demand, but the strict, long-term phase-out of gas models remains in place.
•  

California Air Resources Board (.gov) +4

2. Safety and Carbon Monoxide (Federal Rules)

• Mandatory CO Shutoff: The Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) has introduced strict standards (UL 2201) that require portable generators to have automatic shutoff features when high levels of CO are detected in an enclosed space.
• Lower Emissions: New regulations limit CO emissions, essentially phasing out older, less safe, and higher-emission models in favor of cleaner-running units. 

Federal Register (.gov) +3

3. Noise and Operating Restrictions (Campgrounds)

• Designated "Quiet Hours": Many national parks, national forests, and private campgrounds enforce strict hours for generator use, usually limiting them to specific times in the morning and evening (e.g., 9-11 a.m. and 6-8 p.m.).
• Decibel Limits: Campground managers often require generators to be below 60 dBA at 50 feet, which effectively mandates the use of quieter "inverter" generators rather than louder construction-style units.

so yes in the US you can still use gennys but you are starting to see the introductions of "generator times" 

seeing what is happening up here there are more campgrounds being added to the no generator, or even more restricted hours list all the times.  

just looking up stats from the solar industry year over year sales have increased 15.6% year over year for the last 5 years.  the biggest thing is that solar panels have come down in price a lot, and the biggest barrier was where to store that energy.  with the price drop and adoption of LiFePO4, that problem has been solved.  back even 5 or 6 years ago a 100AH LiFePO4 was 1000 bucks US, now you can get that for 150.00ish and its a better quality battery.  now now instead of loafing up your 5th wheel with a bunch of GC2 batteries for me thoes are 300.00Cdn a peice for a good one and I can get a 314AH watt cycle LiFePO4 for 500Cdn.  that watt cycle replaces six 6v GC2 batteries if you buy them with the intention of sticking to the 50% rule to make them last longer than 3-5 years  so 500 Vs 1800.00  but thats not the real benifit, the LiFePO4 are smaller, lighter and you can use 100% of the capacity over and over about 4000 times, if you use 80% you can do it now about 8000 times with the new cells.  so in the long run LiFePO4 has gotten much much cheeper, even if you only own your rv for 10 years.  thats two sets of batterys for a lead asid that is treated ok.  heck with LifePO4 your putting them in to your next rv.

so what has happened is before solar was expensive, from the dealership my 5th wheel system would have cost 5000.00 bucks when I bought it.  I got them to throw it in as part of the deal, but if I paid thats what it would have cost.  and that was for three 160 watt panels, the pwm controler, a 2000 watt inverter and a 50 amp ATS

if I were to buy and install that all myself it would cost me about 1500, buck.  , but now days the sweet spot for solar panels and price seams to be in that 4-500 watt size.  I can buy a 400 for 180.00 cdn right now where 200's seem to be about 300.00 so today I could buils a 1600 watt system for about the same price as building what I have now.  which is why the 5th wheel is next on the upgrade list, well after the new truck camper we pick up next week.  so here is an example of a system that is almost enough.  my 5th wheel has 480 watts all togeather and four 6V batteries.  For the last 10 years we have never worried about power, then the other year I decided I wanted to try run my bar fridge in theoutdoor kitchen so I pugged it in and turned the inverter on.  over the 3 days I lost about 20% of my battery capacity a day.  so I am going to upgrade to about 1200-2000 ( minimum is three 400 watt panels, max is four 500 watt panels, dependign how the space and layout works.) on a MPPT controler then I am building more LiFePO4 batteries for the 5th wheel.  so probably around 1200AH there.  this will let me run my bar fridge, tv, sterio, ice maker, ninja slushy, and what ever else I want all day long and never be below 100% by the end of the day.  well if ti was hugely over cast and raining but thats what the extra battery capacity is for.  the solar upgrade will cost me 750.00cdn and the batteries would  cost me about  1200US.

that used to be impossable as little as 5 years ago unless you had money to burn as the solar wants that bad price at that time, I did a 325 watt mppt setup in my truck camper 6 years ago for 400US, but there was no point going any bigger as there was no where to put the batteries I would have needed to store extra capacity.  thats why you had the issue for the longest time of people with solar systems being able to extend there trip a day or two but not be self reliant.  LiFePO4 has changed all that.  now it is cheep for have a lot of storage.  like I said if you buy watt cycle for 1000Cdn, (I think the price is the same in USD due to the terrifs you guys have to pay) but that would get you 628ah of storage.  

so when I talk to my buddys who buy new rv's or old ones, but new to them.  I tell them to build the foundation first.  spend money on the batteries.  in 7 out of 10 cases that all you have to do now.  they drop 1G and they can camp for a week running the furnace no issues and for most people thats all they need.  some have higher power demands so that week turns in to 4 days but they decide they want to be able to go longer.  thats where solar comes in, and with the price being so low you can put more than you need on, so say you use 100AH/ day put panels that will give you 300AH throughout the day if you need it.  this does a few things like I said before it makes up for a couple rainy overcast days with one good day of sun, plus in shade it gives you a lot more.  say the shading is reducing you to 20% capacity, the normal output is 300AH/day now your going to get 60AH.  thats that makes you ned usage for the day 40ah and with 628Ah of battery thats still projecting about 15 days untill you run out of power if everything stays the same.  

and as i have always said if you need to run the ac 24/7 then your eith in powered sites or a generator in areas where your allowed to run it in that manor, or you need to put a lot bigger system in.  there are people on the board, havent seen them in a bit that have systems that let them run there ac and everything else all day and never worry about power. 

a simple c pap is no big deal for powering.  

Solar discussions changed my mind in 2016. 

so it gets hard when comparing prices between canada and the US, that 2000eu honda is 1500 up here.  plus I was more thinking along the lines of some one who doesn't have anything and is trying to decide which way to go to end up with a system that will push 3000 watts continously as that will run any AC on a rv with out a soft start which adds another 500 bucks Cdn for a micro air.  as for sunk costs usaly if you are buying a new camper a genny is a option, not a standard feature, and you will be paying way more than what I mentioned from the dealer for it and it won't be that quiet.  plus if we look at truck campers spicificly it adds weight, and the way truck campers are now days, that is something you have to keep in mind.  by me not getting an ac or genny in the one we just purchased I saved a tone of money, over 6000.00 Cdn, but I also saved over 300lbs in weight and gained a nice big storage area.  

the honda eu2000 burns through 1.1gal of gas in 4-6 hours on a 75% load so if you run that ac 24/7 it could take up to 5 gal a day so that 

a couple things I forgot in my original post, is you have to have the space to store thoes two generators, for a tow behind or 5th wheel that gets easy, you can just throw them in the back of the truck, unless you have it stuffed with other things.  then you have to have enough fuel to get you through your trip.  so a single honda 2000 will burn 1.1 gal in 4 to 6 hours at 75% load.  if you have to run that ac 24 hours a day because your somewhere down south then that 4 to 5 gal a day or one jerry can per day.  

I'll admidt I haven't camped in the south or california, fell asleep on the beech a few times but havent camped 🤣) I have in the pacific north west, montana, utah, colorado, and the dakota's.  never needed ac there, but that could just be me.  I don't sit inside in the ac all day, I am out getting wet in lakes or rivers, as long as there is enough of a breeze in the evening that I can sleep its all good.  eventualy I will get an a/c but by not getting the dealer ones it left me open to the option of getting a more effecient 12V one.  for 800Cdn I can get a 10000btu, 780 watt 50db roof top one.  so thats 60 amps per hour if it runs constantly.  I could make that work on a truck camper, but it would just be for sleeping pretty much so it would consume less power than that.  

but yes its all depends on how you camp and where.  even arazona cools off at night, although its stinking hot during the day, but beer goes a long way to keeping you cool, or in my case my Ninja slushy 🤣