Do we need to winterize for a few days in Yellowstone?

For those that have been following this thread please take my advice. It may save some grief and expense.
Do a proper winterizing of the RV by draining everything possible and adding antifreeze to all p-traps, including the shower or bathtub.
There are several you-tube videos and websites that explain the procedure in detail.
It sure beats having to do repairs before the camping season starts next year.

In a previous post you stated that a fully charged battery would freeze at -60F. Then got upset when you were corrected. Then you state that P-traps will not freeze and rupture because there is room for expansion in two directions.
Your folks must have been well aware that p-traps can and do freeze and rupture or they would not have added antifreeze as a precaution.
Sounds like you are arguing with yourself, Not me.

Some children learn from mom and dad, some don't.

harold1946 wrote:

When water freezes it expands, applying pressure equally in all directions.

Once more than then I quit.

My "credibility" suffers only in YOUR mind and somehow that doesn't concern me much.

Freezing water exerts equal pressure in all directions ***ONLY*** if there is not room for expansion in one or two directions, that is, if it is in a confined space.

Water pipes break most often because of the hydraulic pressure exerted after an ice blockage occurs and THEN it continues to freeze in the direction where there is no outlet for the pressure......most often downstream from the initial freeze point.

A charged battery does not freeze until about -70F so anyone with a frozen battery has neglected it before that time.

I never said that one should not "winterize" if the conditions warrant it.

I did remember later that my folks poured antifreeze in the P-traps. I assume that is because the pipes were thin and never designed to hold ANY pressure at all.

Water heater tanks are designed to never be totally full, yet I have heard of and seen one that ruptured from freezing.
Its called winterizing and the same thing must be done to an RV.
The 67 year old retired plumbing contractor that has a cabin in our community,(Hannagan Meadow) winterizes most the cabins in the area every fall.
Your credibility is waning fast, but its always interesting and sometimes quite entertaining to read your posts. Keep up the good work.
Next spring, when there are posts about frozen batteries, ruptured piping, water heaters, holding tanks, etc etc, I will be waiting for your explanation. It can and does happen whether it should or not.
It happens every year to those that are new to the RVing world and those that do not winterize.
When water freezes it expands, applying pressure equally in all directions.

harold1946 wrote:
With water in the pump it can freeze and break, along with the lines from the tank and any water that is in the lines at a low point.

Point A is a good one.

The pump might be a problem as would the water heater tank if it is left totally full.

And this is not a "theory". It is a fact of physics.
Like I said, ask a plumber.....one with some actual experience.

My folks wintered in Florida for near to 30 years.
They turned off the water at an underground valve/drain.
They drained the water heater, toilet tanks and opened all the faucets.
In 30 years, there were no problems.....with temps going down near -20 F at times.

I can not explain the anecdotal "evidence" of others.
Water simply freezing in a P-trap should NOT cause a problem......because there is room for the ice to expand in two directions as it freezes.

SarahElizabeth: You will have no issues for short-time freezes. Relax! :)

RE: Dripping Water: We spent many nights in freezing temps over our 16 years of full-timing. We, and everyone in our winter park in the desert of Arizona, were advised to leave the water drip overnight and it seemed to work with everyone - no lines were frozen. During the days we used the water freely so it kept the lines open even if we had freezing days although it usually warmed up to the 40's at least. Of course, you can only do this if you have sewer hookups so your gray tank doesn't fill up.

We never let our water hose outside. We filled our tank and ran off it. The water pump never froze. A frozen water hose takes forever to thaw.

If we'd be staying a short time in a park and leaving the next day, if we had cold weather - not necessarily freezing - we didn't leave our sewer hose out either. Trying to store a cold hose will surely put a crack in it. We kept it stores until time to dump.

SarahElizabeth wrote:
We'll be dry camping. The only campground out there with full hookups is $50 a night!!

I would not be too concerned unless the temperature drops below 32 degrees for several hours.

With water in the pump it can freeze and break, along with the lines from the tank and any water that is in the lines at a low point. That is the reason all water lines are either filled with an antifreeze or blown out with compressed air. Including adding antifreeze to all P- traps so they do not freeze.
It is done in the same manner in homes and cabins that are not heated in freezing temperatures. Ask anyone that has such a dwelling and any plumber that does winterizing. Its the same procedure.

If your theory is true, why is it we have so many posts every spring about ruptured pipes and p-traps from those that did not properly winterize?"

Example: look at the recent post; " P-trap problem need help".
The previous owner stated that it froze and cracked.

harold1946 wrote:
Water expands as it freezes, that is what causes piping to break, not water pressure. Even with the pump off there is still water in the lines and the pump.

Listen Harold, you know a lot of stuff but on this one you are just plain wrong. Just ask any plumber who is over 40 years old.

IF....the water in the pipe has room to expand in both directions without building up excessive pressure, that is one end slightly open (faucet) and the other end still connected to the input at ~40 PSI, the ENTIRE pipe can freeze solid with no adverse effects. This is why it is NOT a good idea to turn the source off in a "city water" situation and instead leave the faucets drip.
I know it's somewhat counter-intuitive but it IS true.

With an RV, the opposite is true. Since turning off the "pump" does not actually block anything, you do that and open the faucets. This assumes, of course, that you are NOT still connected to an outside source of water.

We'll be dry camping. The only campground out there with full hookups is $50 a night!!