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path1's avatar
path1
Explorer
Mar 04, 2017

Follow up on running red light and new technology

In this link http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/29208496.cfm

I wrote about getting hit at a red light, but not very hard compared to the other car, because I didn't enter the intersection.

The driver that caused the whole thing got a verity of tickets. Like $1,100.00 worth:)

Negligent driving in second degree was one of the tickets. I Love new technology. At least new technology to me. The first cop that got on scene ask if I was alright then asked if air bags deployed. Then asked for my phone number. Little did I know what he wanted phone number for. I understand we are either "test ground" or have the capability to see if someone is on the phone and at what moment of time. Almost instantly. After medic arrived the cop went back to his car and ran everyone on his computer. Not just to see if anybody was wanted for anything but he ran our phone numbers and he was able to see if we were on the phone at time of the crash. I remember reading that locally (our county) got some fed money to try out some new technology. So if you like to talk on your phone while driving be prepared, your day is coming. But I see how you could fight the ticket and say somebody else was using your phone. Or am I missing something?

Of course when you have no insurance and on the phone and running red lights...problems are not to far away.

Also this is the first crash I've been in over 35 years. Lot has changed. When the cop got done with whatever they do, he called all of us over to his car. Out of his printer he was printing a paper with case number and all drivers names with drivers address and license numbers, vehicles with license plate numbers and insurance policy number and name if insurance company and gave each on of us a copy.

Got home called my insurance company to start a claim. They had me scan into computer and send them a copy of what cop gave me. They called me back in about 10 min and said OK, adjuster will call you Mon or Tues.

Hope wives car gets fixed as fast, as what has taken place so far. But don't worry I'm not that impressed that I want to be in another crash:)

25 Replies

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  • rhagfo's avatar
    rhagfo
    Explorer III
    Mar 05, 2017
    DownTheAvenue wrote:
    There are many different cell phone carriers, and each carrier would have to be contacted separately to ascertain if the phone was active at the time of the crash, which, by the way, was not determined definitively. Then the issue of obtaining the cooperation of each carrier without any kind of a search warrant.

    Sorry, you are mistaken. The officer was NOT able to ascertain if a phone was in use at the time of the crash by typing a number into a computer. There is technology that can determine if a cell phone was in use at certain times, but it requires the actual phone being subject to a piece of hardware to extract that information, not the number typed into a cloud based service! There was a bill in New York legislature requiring cell phone owners to relinquish their phones to police to obtain this information with a warrant, but that bill raised serious 4th Amendment concerns.I don't know if it passed.


    I believe you are mistake about that, they have the ability to track your location based on the record at the phone company as to which cell towers your phone was connected to while the may need some information from the phones SIM, they may now have the ability to simply use the phone number.
  • spoon059's avatar
    spoon059
    Explorer III
    Mar 05, 2017
    guidry wrote:
    I'd be interested in how you were told the cop ran your phone number to see if you were on the phone. He would have to have a search warrant for that information. Unless laws have changed since I worked as a LEO, without permission, exigent circumstances or a warrant, he couldn't get that info. He would want your phone number for the report though. Please explain, we're curious now?

    DownTheAvenue wrote:
    There are many different cell phone carriers, and each carrier would have to be contacted separately to ascertain if the phone was active at the time of the crash, which, by the way, was not determined definitively. Then the issue of obtaining the cooperation of each carrier without any kind of a search warrant.

    You are both wrong. You need a search warrant if you are attempting to access the drivers physical phone. You only need a subpoena to obtain cell phone records to determine incoming or outgoing phone calls and messages.

    Either way, I find it almost impossible to believe that an officer is able to obtain that information on the side of the road. I am an investigator and subpoena call phone records all the time. We have a dedicated attorney in our office to request subpoenas... that still takes 15 minutes to type the request, have it reviewed and have it written up. Then after obtaining the signed subpoena, you have to submit the subpoena to the appropriate company (some accept fax, some accept email, some still require the original subpoena be mailed). The absolute fastest I have ever gotten a return was 24 hours later.

    I don't see how that is happening on the side of the road. Even if the officer can get that information, what does it prove? If a text message was received, there is no evidence that the driver read it as soon as it was received. If a phone call was placed or received, how do you prove the vehicle didn't have legal handsfree equipment in place to facilitate a lawful telephone call?

    There are far too many questions and it appears highly unlikely that the officer was doing anything other than gathering identifying information on drivers involved in a wreck.
  • rhagfo's avatar
    rhagfo
    Explorer III
    Mar 05, 2017
    This brings up if you were using a "Hand Free" device for your phone. Currently in Oregon it is legal to use a cell phone hands free, but after a ride yesterday with a coworker not sure if that solves the problem! He was on a call and almost came to a full stop for light that was standing green, no traffic in front of us and the light had been green for a bit.
    I don't think he does well at multi tasking. I believe that now days multi tasking can be considered A.D.H.D in children, that they don't concentrate on one task at a time.

    Yes, they now have the technology to determine it you were on your phone and how you were using it. I use to be when I rented a car when traveling I could be in and gone in about 1 minute, adjust mirrors, turn on lights, fasten seat-belt and go. Now it is about 5 minutes, check mirrors, set up the phone on the audio device for hand free use, delete the last six users, adjust seat, adjust steering wheel, fasten seat-belt.
  • DownTheAvenue's avatar
    DownTheAvenue
    Explorer
    Mar 05, 2017
    There are many different cell phone carriers, and each carrier would have to be contacted separately to ascertain if the phone was active at the time of the crash, which, by the way, was not determined definitively. Then the issue of obtaining the cooperation of each carrier without any kind of a search warrant.

    Sorry, you are mistaken. The officer was NOT able to ascertain if a phone was in use at the time of the crash by typing a number into a computer. There is technology that can determine if a cell phone was in use at certain times, but it requires the actual phone being subject to a piece of hardware to extract that information, not the number typed into a cloud based service! There was a bill in New York legislature requiring cell phone owners to relinquish their phones to police to obtain this information with a warrant, but that bill raised serious 4th Amendment concerns.I don't know if it passed.
  • guidry's avatar
    guidry
    Explorer II
    Mar 05, 2017
    I'd be interested in how you were told the cop ran your phone number to see if you were on the phone. He would have to have a search warrant for that information. Unless laws have changed since I worked as a LEO, without permission, exigent circumstances or a warrant, he couldn't get that info. He would want your phone number for the report though. Please explain, we're curious now?

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