Another criminal idiot in the National Parks

dodge guy wrote:
We should've jailed the settlers that left wagon ruts On the Oregon trail. Those can still be seen too!

Some of my Ancestors would agree with that wholeheartedly.
Seems we still don't count even though we gave or had taken out lands, way of life and millions who lost their lives to more ruthless invaders.
however some of my Ancestors are on the other side of the coin too.

agesilaus wrote:
Damages salt flat at Badwater

He drove across the salt flat at Badwater in DVNP, got stuck and abandoned the van. Faces $5000 fine and 6 months in jail

See how old the van is, look for a guy with a long pony trail.

We should've jailed the settlers that left wagon ruts On the Oregon trail. Those can still be seen too!

Well Florida has State Forests and State Wildlife Management Areas. The latter are definitely open to hunters and I think the the SF may be too. So it's a state political problem not federal.

NJRVer wrote:

agesilaus wrote:
What percent of Maryland is owned by the Federal Government, darned little is my guess. You don't even have a major park, not that there is room for one. Some western states are over 80 percent Fed and they have a real cause for unhappiness.

I think you answered your own question.

How much room is left in any of the states east of the Mississippi?

Would you really want the land out west to be one giant suburb like my home state of NJ?

Or, are you really ok with a few select wealthy individuals owning what's left of Utah, and letting them do with it as they see fit since it would be "their" land?

Just think if the gov't had "sold" Yellowstone or the Grand Canyon.
There would probably be every fast food franchise in existence in them along with strip malls, etc.

I have a number of firearms and reloading equipment and no place, really to shoot or hunt any more.
Access to trout waters is getting very limited.
Some State Forest Lands were encircled Developers and no no access, their own exclusive untaxed hunting and fishing property, unless you have a helicopter and can repel.
Every time I and others bring it up we get the same old arguments of needing to increase the tax base and sling off State and Federal Lands
But to who? Their business contributors. Right now they are trying to privatize a very popular large state park for a group of Concessionaires, out of Ohio, I think I understood.
The transfer of already public lands into another classification that might permanently preserve their status for American Citizens is a good move in my book.
I intend this next year to spend some time with Friends up there and hopefully keep the lobbyists away and see if we can gain some real ground for hunters, fishermen, RVers and everyone needing a break and relaxation from the ant colony

agesilaus wrote:
"Serious question because I'm seeking to understand, are you against national wildlife refuges and recreation areas?"
------------------------------------------------------------

Why would I be? I haven't said I was against any type of parkland. Tho the locals in Utah certainly have objections to a couple of the recent NM. My only objection to to the park formation situation is that I do not think the President should be able to seize vast tracts of land by fiat. I think that power should be returned to the congress.

I think many of us don't think that the NPS does a good job of managing the parklands it controls tho.

He just changed the status of already Federal Lands.
While I won't be traveling to those most likely, others will and hopefully their kids and grand kids and many generations to follow.
Herein the East we now have dearth of open accessable lands or public lands.
Friends in the Legislature always wanted to increase the tax base, and never to increase or preserve existing outdoor opportunities.
We lost 30,000 acres for a bargain of 3,000.00 in the Eighties because
Governor didn't want it off the tax rolls even though the taxes at that time on that type of land was miniscule. A Developer and a Timber company wanted access to it. In the end the kids sold it off in pieces for less and everyone is locked out.
In Utah, Nevada, and the other states they want the land for their associates and contributors, such as the piece China wants to buy for uranium mining, and those with range permits and some private lands within resisted and well....
This is not partisan politics or politics this is about why our land is wanted to be converted to others pockets.

Were there any bullet holes in the van?

Veebyes wrote:
Stupidity travels everywhere. I used to own & operate a snorkel business. I rotated sites but some were used more than others. Always advised people not to take or break off any coral. It was there for them to see because those before left it alone.

I will never forget or forgive the idiot who came back to the boat with a big sea fan that he had broken off the reef.

What do you do with these people?

A $20,000 fine will get their attention.

Stupidity travels everywhere. I used to own & operate a snorkel business. I rotated sites but some were used more than others. Always advised people not to take or break off any coral. It was there for them to see because those before left it alone.

I will never forget or forgive the idiot who came back to the boat with a big sea fan that he had broken off the reef.

What do you do with these people?

I would argue that the Federal Govt (Executive or Legislative Branch) seizing land is a competent different issue from keeping and maintainting land that has been Federal public land for over a century. There is evidence of Federal land being given to states and then states making the land inaccessible to tax payers, local and non local. NV and UT are too big examples. Pretty sure you can't hunt on state land in CO.

I've been a local/insider for a couple other issues where the national news came in to spin to the issue and the reality wasn't reflected right at all. And I was of the same political flavor of the news channel. The national press spins issues without the nuances and sometimes even core issues and that is true for CNN, MSNBC, and Fox News alike. I won't go into specific examples becaue that will derail the thread.