Anyone have Sears MasterCard limit decreased

rockhillmanor wrote:

toedtoes wrote:

rockhillmanor wrote:

toedtoes wrote:
Here is the information on Automatic Debit Scams. As you can see, they have to obtain your bank account number (not your debit card number).

This is "inaccurate" also.

They do NOT have to have your actual bank account number.

Your debit card info, when used, 'includes' your bank account number within the transaction taken, because it is attached to that account. That is how the money is taken out. The company that debits you for a bill does not physically need to have your bank account number just what is on the debit card.

I just set up 4 bill pays over the phone and all that was required was my debit card number and expiration. Only one of the four asked for the code on the back.

My bill pay for my car insurance and YMCA did require one of my checks signed with void across it to set up auto bill pay. They were the ONLY ones that required the check/acct number.

There are 2 ways a company may ask you for to set up an automatic bill pay.

1. A real check with void across it physically provided to company.
2. Debit card info.

Yup in the old days they needed your bank account number. Fast forward to today and they don't need it. Just the info on your debit card.

So if you loose it, or put the info on the internet for a purchase someone can get just those two bits of info and use it for an auto debit if they are capable of doing so. Technology is at warp speed and they left a gaping security hole regarding auto pay debits.

You can't tell me that no one on this forum has set up auto bill pay by just giving them their debit card info?? :B

....If they use your debit card info for a bill pay, then it is considered a "debit card transaction" and the bank is required to reimburse you for the fraudulent transaction - regardless of whether they call it a "debit charge" or an "automatic debit"....

Wrong and I'm going to leave with this because, and I have first hand experienced it, bank explained it to me, and you just don't get it.

Curious how old you are and if you were around before debit cards appeared on the scene to understand all what 'was' required for monthly auto pay deductions from an account before debit cards?

NO and NO an 'auto pay' is not processed in house by the bank as a 'debit charge' purchase. They may accept the card for the info but it is processed as a monthly automatic deduction

ONE because it goes into the bank as a REPETITIVE monthly deduction. I.E. monthly auto deduction from your account. In this instance the bank CAN recognize the difference between the two. and TWO a debit charge is where the card is swiped for each and every transaction by you the owner.

Where the problem lies is the bank is set up on the OLD system of security practices, where the owner of the account to obtain a monthly deduction from their checking account HAD TO DO THE FOLLOWING:

supply a written authorization to the company,
provide the routing number
Provide the checking account number,
AND do it all in person to sign for it.
Monthly Auto deductions from an account were taken very seriously. And yes these old tangible real paper documents where put in your file.

Then comes along the introduction of the debit card.
Hmm, it's attached to an actual checking account so let's just use that. Which they DO now.

And the hole in using the 'debit' card for a 'repetitive monthly auto payment deduction from an account, is that is you, the checking account owner NO longer has to be there in person, be able to provide the checking acct number, or sign an authorization, etc.

For you millenniums, the debit card has NOT always been around in the banking world. :W

Have a good day. You keep believing that an auto deduction is processed in house at a bank the same as a debit purchase.
I've got 4th of July parties to attend and refreshing spirits calling to me!:C

I AM old enough to remember before debit cards. I am NOT a millenial.

Here are the actual rules


Using your debit card at a POS, ATM, telephone, or in person is the same (see Section 203.5(a)(1)). Whether you are using your debit card in person or online makes no difference. A business can use the debit card to withdraw from your account once or a hundred times it still falls under the Electronic Funds Transfer (EFT) definition.

Section 205.2(m) - definition of unauthorized EFT
there is no requirement that it is a single event or multiple events.

Section 205.2(k) - definition of preauthorized EFT
defines the automatic payments as EFT

Section 205.6 - liability for unauthorized EFTs
(b)(1) and (b)(2) explain the notification requirements and liability for a loss or stolen card;
(b)(3) explains the notification requirements and liability for an unauthorized EFT with no loss of card.

Section 205.10 - this sections explains an AUTHORIZED EFT. The liability rules are different IF you had authorized someone to take repeat payments out of your account (whether with check or debit card) and then revoked that authorization. If you do not notify the bank of your revocation of the authorization (205.10(c)) at least 3 business days prior to the withdrawal, then the bank is not liable. In that situation, you must fight with the business to be refunded.

If you read all this, you will understand that if you did NOT authorize the payment by providing them with your debit card info or account info, then you are not liable for the loss. If it was an unauthorized EFT by someone who has not received a preauthorization from you, then it is covered under the FDIC. If you have given them preauthorization at one time, then you are liable unless you notify the bank that you have revoked that authorization.

A legitimate business that had received your preauthorization will have a record to show the bank upon their investigation (that record is created when you click the "agree" button). That then puts the onus on YOU to prove you notified the bank of your revocation.

If a legitimate business fakes that preauthorization, then you need to talk to your bank to get a deeper investigation.

A non-legitimate business (or scam business) is going to be easily identifiable by the bank and you will be reimbursed according to the appropriate section above.