I'm trying to help a friend find a small toy hauler and came across a Heartland Pioneer model at an attractive price that seems suitable for my friend's needs.Not being familiar with the Heartland brand, I looked for info on Heartland products on the net and was surprised to see an inordinate amount of negative reviews from Heartland RV owners. The negative reviews weren't confined to only entry level models. Poor reviews spanned from top of the line fifth wheels to entry level models.What I found alarming in the reviews was the types of problems the owners encountered with their units. Most of them were serious problems and defects that leads me to believe Heartland produces shoddy trailers across its entire product line. To make matters worse for owners with the defective trailers, it seems the company isn't very responsive with warranty claims.I have been an RV owner for many years and realize even the best RV makers aren't perfect and some issues are bound to surface after taking possession of a new RV. However, I haven't seen so many negative reviews about serious problems with an RV as I have with Heartland. Should I tell my friend to spend more money and look elsewhere in order to save himself a lifetime of heartaches and headaches? If so, what brand would you recommend for hauling one SxS UTV? The trailer will be used by a couple only, so there is no need to have additional beds above the garage area.

2015 Heartland Pioneer. Bad controller board on the water heater just after purchase. No big deal Amazon had it and I replaced it, easier and more cost effective than dealing with the dealer. That has been the only problem.

Very few trailers don't have Lippert frames and they are usually priced substantially higher. They all have about the same construction built in the same area by the same people. About the only difference is management between the company's.

The real blame ultimately is with the RV maker.If a RV maker specs the right frame with some headroom for vibration, full load, and day to day real weather conditions, there would be fewer problems. Lippert specs exactly what the RV makers tell them to spec, no more, no less, and that is invariably a far scrawniner frame than what should be used.Nobody is forcing a RV maker to use any frames that get shipped. It is an integral part of the RV maker's job to inspect an incoming frame, and if it is full of booger welds or not up to par, it needs to head back to Lippert as a defective product. Inspecting a frame isn't rocket science -- any welder can look at it and know if it is suitable for use or if it goes into the reject bin. Since RV makers are welding anyway, they should be able to add reinforcements if needed if a frame is marginal.If Lippert is so bad, RV makers should be beating a path to Norco BAL... but they are not. Norco BAL doesn't use welds, but uses huck bolts (And Huck Bobtails allow for relatively easy disassembly of the frame with the same tool that was used to assemble it.)I would focus the blame where it belongs, the RV maker. Not that I consider Lippert above reproach, but they just make what their customers (which isn't us) tell them to.

Mountain Mama wrote:How does one find out what frames are used on a unit? I’m looking at a Forest River Cedar creek and am not finding any info about the frame.As far as I know there is only, well two mfgs that use in house built frames. Northwood Mfg and OutdoorRV. Both out of Lagrande OR. Im sure there are others.Lippert frame issues seem to have been fixed several years ago. At least no one has posted in quite some time complaining about issues.Many of the issues were shared across some of the lower line fivers. Cardinal, Cedar Creek, Montana to name a few that did not seem to be involved in the frame issues. I have a Lippert frame under my 2005 Cedar Creek and have never had an issue, so I would not be afraid to buy what I like and go camping.

we owned 2 Heartlands.. loved them and no problems

Are Heartland RVs that bad? Many negative reviews on the net

Mountain_Mama
Explorer
Apr 23, 2018
myredracer wrote:
Ralph Cramden wrote:
The facts are that 90% of what's out there is going to be on a frame made by Lippert and that's where the problems originate. Thin steel, fugly welds, questionable engineering.

That can't be emphasized enough. I've read of numerous FWs with broke pin box welds and it's not limited to Heartland.

Just know that according to Lippert, it's always the owner's fault for overloading and/or driving on bad roads... There will be owners with the same frame that have never had a problem and claim there's nothing wrong with the frames and will defend them to the ends of the earth. Major problem IMO is that there are no regulations of any kind on trailer frames so Lippert can build them however they want, and they do. Don't fall for their claims of quality control either because that is next to meaningless.

We discovered a major problem with the Lippert frame on a previous TT one day after we owned it. Initially Lippert declared it was "within spec" (yeah, whatever). Took it to a gov't certified inspection facility who said it was absolutely the worst frame they'd ever seen. A detailed report + photos from them ended up with the TT being replaced under warranty with one with a very heavy duty frame. That RV manufacturer continues to churn out the same line of TTs with the same crappy frame...

If we were ever to get a new TT, I'd go out of my way to get one with a non-Lippert frame. Small consolation tho. because there can be plenty of other LCI cr*p in a TT or FW like sofa, doors, "stabilizer" (haha) jacks, and much more, pffft.

How does one find out what frames are used on a unit? I’m looking at a Forest River Cedar creek and am not finding any info about the frame.
myredracer
Explorer II
Apr 22, 2018
Ralph Cramden wrote:
The facts are that 90% of what's out there is going to be on a frame made by Lippert and that's where the problems originate. Thin steel, fugly welds, questionable engineering.

That can't be emphasized enough. I've read of numerous FWs with broke pin box welds and it's not limited to Heartland.

Just know that according to Lippert, it's always the owner's fault for overloading and/or driving on bad roads... There will be owners with the same frame that have never had a problem and claim there's nothing wrong with the frames and will defend them to the ends of the earth. Major problem IMO is that there are no regulations of any kind on trailer frames so Lippert can build them however they want, and they do. Don't fall for their claims of quality control either because that is next to meaningless.

We discovered a major problem with the Lippert frame on a previous TT one day after we owned it. Initially Lippert declared it was "within spec" (yeah, whatever). Took it to a gov't certified inspection facility who said it was absolutely the worst frame they'd ever seen. A detailed report + photos from them ended up with the TT being replaced under warranty with one with a very heavy duty frame. That RV manufacturer continues to churn out the same line of TTs with the same crappy frame...

If we were ever to get a new TT, I'd go out of my way to get one with a non-Lippert frame. Small consolation tho. because there can be plenty of other LCI cr*p in a TT or FW like sofa, doors, "stabilizer" (haha) jacks, and much more, pffft.
mowingman
Explorer
Apr 22, 2018
Exactly correct. And then, you had better have a very good dealer who will take care of all the issues for you.

azdryheat wrote:
My opinion is that most all trailers are poorly built, not just Heartland. You will not find a person on the assembly line looking for quality control issues. It's up to the new owner to find the flaws.
azdryheat
Explorer
Apr 22, 2018
My opinion is that most all trailers are poorly built, not just Heartland. You will not find a person on the assembly line looking for quality control issues. It's up to the new owner to find the flaws.
donn0128
Explorer II
Apr 22, 2018
WOW. And I thought my 3 issues in 12 years was bad!
mowingman
Explorer
Apr 22, 2018
A friend of mine bought a big, top-of-the-line, Heartland, Landmark 365 5th wheel last year. In the first 3 months of ownership, he had around 30 warranty issues. After one year of ownership, I believe he is up to around 80 warranty issues.Luckily, he bought it from a great dealer that is fixing everything for him on a timely basis The factory people he talked to admitted that they no longer do any serious quality control inspections at the factory. They just give the trailers a quick once over to spot anything obvious. His was not a cheapy. The MSRP on it was about $128,000.00. and, he still got shoddy workmanship for all that money.
NCC-1701
Explorer
Apr 22, 2018
The first one I ever went into while at an RV show had such a soft floor it felt like I was walking on a trampoline. I was standing outside the unit and watched my 120# mother-in-law walk by in the kitchen and could see the floor sagging under that minimal weight. Looked at my wife and told her I'd bet that thing wouldn't last 2 years on the road. Looking at the construction specs, it was clear they were far more interested in throwing junk together to look good to sell, but had little care about making a quality unit.

Some friends of ours bought one and regretted it greatly. Constant structural issues. They dumped it after just a few years.

That said, my wife and I went to a large RV show this winter with my daughter and her husband who are starting the search for a new TT. I'd say that about 90% of what we looked at was not far away from Heartland's low quality construction. Even brands that I thought used to do a good job. Looked to me like nearly everyone was sinking to a low-quality level in the TT/5th wheel market. Clearly, Airstream was an exception, which is why they also sell for more money.
Ralph_Cramden
Explorer II
Apr 22, 2018
Heartland-Smeartland lol. The facts are that 90% of what's out there is going to be on a frame made by Lippert and that's where the problems originate. Thin steel, fugly welds, questionable engineering. Sure the RV manufacturers use them, and spec them, and continue to use them, despite known issues going back years, that seem to ebb and flow like the tide. It's all about bottom line. When your foundation is junk from the get go, good luck. Nothing is changing anytime soon, hardly none are immune, so roll the dice.
Johno02
Explorer
Apr 22, 2018
I do not own a fifth-wheel, but after seeing these pictures and reading this link from a friend of ours, I sould seriously avoid the Heartland name, or anything made by them. Please see this link, it is really scary, considering whatcould have happened if she was inexperienced, and knew to check her rig at every chance. See this link:
http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/29617306.cfm

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