Axles

Cecilt wrote:

bound4fl wrote:
Start flaming me.

To the OP load up take off and have a great time. 2 or 3 hundred pounds are not gonna make any difference, just don't take a full load of fresh water. Have fun life is too short to worry about everything.

Amen. I have the same 323bh as Cale. I am not going to stress over a few hundred pounds. IMO, all weights are conservative. If they weren't and we did overload we would constantly be breaking axles and frames. No way in he$$ can this TT only carry 1000 lbs. or the enviable it will break the second you pull it out of your driveway. I am about being safe but I also take calculated risks( I don't consider overloading a few hundred pounds a risk by definition) but that is the English saying. Go camping, have fun and don't stress over the weight.

Thanks Cecilt...quick background on me....I am severely anal retentive...I fly in the Navy and limits and procedures have been ingrained in me over time. I concur with the few hundred pounds over won't kill anything, but in the plane, I know that limits are for safety, but I still have a little something-something if I get into a precarious position. Airplanes are engineered and made to crash land and still walk away....now, RV's, all new territory.. Even though I have only been doing this for three years, I find that the best is from the folks that have tested and tried the limits of these items, hence the questions I have and the wanting to re-engineer the trailer. Thanks!

Cale

FWIW I'm pushing the 4400lbs alko axles on one trailer. so I talked to my local parts guy about just what the 4400lb axles are. After he talked to Alko, best he could tell, and what he though earlier is that the 4400lb axles use a 5200lb tube, 10" brakes instead of 12" like the 5200lbs, usually 6 lug wheels and a spindle/bearing different from the 3500lb or the 5200/6000lb axles, and 2200lb springs.

As long as you have 4400lbs with 6 lug wheels rated for 2800+lbs you can switch to 5200lb axles using the same wheels and get more margin and bigger brakes. 225/75 LRE tires have a 2800lb rating so they have some margin.

curious if anyone else has info on what the 4400lb axles are composed of.

With almost 4400lbs on mine with the WD hooked up, the tubes still have lots of camber in them, and after 20K miles tires are wearing evenly. so I guess the axles have reasonable margin.

bound4fl wrote:
Start flaming me.

To the OP load up take off and have a great time. 2 or 3 hundred pounds are not gonna make any difference, just don't take a full load of fresh water. Have fun life is too short to worry about everything.

Amen. I have the same 323bh as Cale. I am not going to stress over a few hundred pounds. IMO, all weights are conservative. If they weren't and we did overload we would constantly be breaking axles and frames. No way in he$$ can this TT only carry 1000 lbs. or the enviable it will break the second you pull it out of your driveway. I am about being safe but I also take calculated risks( I don't consider overloading a few hundred pounds a risk by definition) but that is the English saying. Go camping, have fun and don't stress over the weight.

ktmrfs wrote:

jmtandem wrote:

GVWR (lbs/kgs) 9000 / 4082.4

If your gross is 9000 pounds, then you will have about 1170 on the tongue (13 percent of gross). Be sure to get spring bars that are up to that amount. That leaves 7830 or so on the axles. If your axles are 4400 pound axles you have 8800 pounds axle capacity and the math aproximately says that leaves around 1000 pounds for all your stuff and water. Water is 8.3 pounds per gallon.

It becomes a little more than just changing the axles. Tires and springs are an issue as well. You will need to be able to have the carrying capacity in the tires to match the new axles, wheels to accommodate the new tires/pressures and probably upgraded springs.

remember, with a WD hitch you transfer some TV axle weight to the trailer axles. In my case, with 1400lbs on the tongue, I add about 400lbs to the trailer axles combined. So for the above case estimate that you would end up with about 8200 on the axles, or 4100 each axle. Close but under the axle rating and even more margin with the tires.

I did get a call from the dealer and my Equlaizer hitch is in....that will go on Friday, super excited about that... So, to sum it up...load it, weigh it and as long as I am good on trailer axle weights and truck weights...press on. I usually don't carry a lot of water, usually only 10 gallons for flushing. The way I have always done it, our TH has a 100 gallon fresh water tank, I was always a little leery of putting almost 900lbs of water on the crappy looking straps holding the tank to the bottom.

Cale

jmtandem wrote:

GVWR (lbs/kgs) 9000 / 4082.4

If your gross is 9000 pounds, then you will have about 1170 on the tongue (13 percent of gross). Be sure to get spring bars that are up to that amount. That leaves 7830 or so on the axles. If your axles are 4400 pound axles you have 8800 pounds axle capacity and the math aproximately says that leaves around 1000 pounds for all your stuff and water. Water is 8.3 pounds per gallon.

It becomes a little more than just changing the axles. Tires and springs are an issue as well. You will need to be able to have the carrying capacity in the tires to match the new axles, wheels to accommodate the new tires/pressures and probably upgraded springs.

remember, with a WD hitch you transfer some TV axle weight to the trailer axles. In my case, with 1400lbs on the tongue, I add about 400lbs to the trailer axles combined. So for the above case estimate that you would end up with between 8000 and 8200 on the axles, or 4000 and 4100 on each axle. Close but under the axle rating and even more margin with the tires.

How much you actually transfer to the TV axles with a WD hitch involves lots of variables, knowing how a WD hitch functions and the forces involved, knowledge of basic ME statics, and algebra. Same hitch properly set up on two two vehicles with the same trailer can end up with noticeably different weights transfered to the TV axles. Easier to just weigh it with the WD on than to try to get all the data and calculate it.

Start flaming me.

To the OP load up take off and have a great time. 2 or 3 hundred pounds are not gonna make any difference, just don't take a full load of fresh water. Have fun life is too short to worry about everything.

Silly question though...do the axles feel the weight when you are parked at the campground? Meaning, I have enough room to sleep 8 people, if they are all 150lbs...I would be quite a ways over. Will this bend the axles and flatten the springs?

Yes, the axles feel the weight and so do the springs and tires. However, you are not bumping along on a highway so the relative shock stresses are lower and you might also be using some stabilizer jacks that can help some but not a lot. For sleeping in a stationary place I would not worry about it.

The bigger issue with the OP is how much money does he/she want to spend on tires, axles, wheels, and springs to effectively band-aid the issue or might it be a better option to start over with a new coach that has all the payload and cargo carrying capacity that is wanted or needed.

jmtandem wrote:

We want this trailer to last 10-12 years, so doing this will benefit us in the long run....I hope.

Unfortunately, you can change everything on the trailer except the gross weight. The axles are not really the limiting factor. The gross weight is. If you keep the dry empty weight the same with modifications, then you are still limited to the original payload if you want to stay at or under gross weight.

I would try to see how tight I was with the dealer and maybe offer $1000 to take it back as if there never was a sale and find a trailer with much higher cargo carrying capacity. Otherwise this will be with you all the years you own the trailer. Arctic Fox trailers typically have payloads over 2000 pounds and some more than 3000 pounds so there is plenty of cushion for the occasional extra thing to be carried. Just a suggestion to really fix the issue for good. If your dealer will not work with you then you are in 'bandaid' terrority for fixes and none can raise the gross weight one pound. And if you cannot raise your gross weight, you cannot raise the payload carrying capacity either---at least on paper. There are many trailers with higher than 900 pounds payload capacity. AF was just one example with a very good payload. Hope this all works out for you.

Funny thing...with my Fleetwood, I received a sticker to put over the factory sticker, it actually lowered the weights, because they changed the tire size. The factory tires would bottom out in the wheel well and tear everything up....


Silly question though...do the axles feel the weight when you are parked at the campground? Meaning, I have enough room to sleep 8 people, if they are all 150lbs...I would be quite a ways over. Will this bend the axles and flatten the springs?

Cale

We want this trailer to last 10-12 years, so doing this will benefit us in the long run....I hope.

Unfortunately, you can change everything on the trailer except the gross weight. The axles are not really the limiting factor. The gross weight is. If you keep the dry empty weight the same with modifications, then you are still limited to the original payload if you want to stay at or under gross weight.

I would try to see how tight I was with the dealer and maybe offer $1000 to take it back as if there never was a sale and find a trailer with much higher cargo carrying capacity. Otherwise this will be with you all the years you own the trailer. Arctic Fox trailers typically have payloads over 2000 pounds and some more than 3000 pounds so there is plenty of cushion for the occasional extra thing to be carried. Just a suggestion to really fix the issue for good. If your dealer will not work with you then you are in 'bandaid' terrority for fixes and none can raise the gross weight one pound. And if you cannot raise your gross weight, you cannot raise the payload carrying capacity either---at least on paper. There are many trailers with higher than 900 pounds payload capacity. AF was just one example with a very good payload. Hope this all works out for you.

FastEagle wrote:
When I look at the specs for your trailer on Keystone's web page the primary number is the 9000# GVWR. Unlike a lot of other Keystone trailers, yours has reserve load capacity in the OE axles (GAWR 4400#) and more than adequate load capacity with the OE tires, (ST235/75R15D) at 2540#. Your cargo capacity listed at 910# is going to present the real problem. There are only two factions having authority to increase your GVWR. The vehicle manufacturer or a certified modifier. The statement below is verbatim from a NHTSA document.

"The FMVSS have requirements for the manufacturer to use proper tires and rims for the gross axle weight rating (GAWR) and the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR). The manufacturer may determine the GVWR by adding cargo capacity (if any) to the curb weight of the vehicle as manufactured. The wise consumer, before purchase, will determine if the vehicle has sufficient cargo capacity to carry the weight of water, additional equipment (such as televisions, and microwave ovens), and luggage. The manufacturer’s certification label must show the GVWR. The GVWR must not be exceeded by overloading the vehicle. There is little the government can do to assist a consumer who has purchased a vehicle that has insufficient cargo capacity for its
intended use."

Somewhere in your trailer there is a cargo label. It would be interesting to see what it has listed as cargo capacity.

FastEagle

I will be out at the trailer tomorrow doing some post weekend cleanup and pre-weekend packing....I will snag a picture of that....it is on the door jam, I saw it and did not think to snap a pic of it...

So you agree with the post above? If I may over simplify....When I weigh it this weekend, I can carry enough "stuff" and water so as not to go over the 8800lbs for the axle weight? I agree, the tires are good-to-go, just don't want a bent axle or two...

Cale