Buying an RV Park

The OPs original question was about purchase offers, items to consider,in that offer. I chose then and now to offer the after purchase scenario. The average length of ownership in small (think mom & pop) rv parks in highly seasonal areas is just over 5 years. Many reasons for that fact. Prime is the many hats to wear, surprises from regulators when due diligence in discovery is lacking, difficulty in retaining seasonal help. That's why workcampers are so sought after, $ rewarded ( by some anyway) for returning.
Rv parks are a target for Authorities Having Jurisdiction. ( AHJ) Increasingly private camps are that target, as they have been built primarily before that new regulation, fall under scrutiny when the property changes hands.
All to often park buyers are enamored of potential lifestyle, oblivious to even the most rudimentary task such as daily firepit cleaning, or a tree limb that was high last week, needs cutting today.
Then the AHJ comes along and £{€~~^{}~~~{£} get out the check book . for any potential camp buyer I highly recommend attending the annual ARVC conference
Paul Bambie, pres. of the Nat. Assoc.of rv parks and Campgrounds, aka ARVC would gladly guide you through the maze. ,join the state camp association if there is one, rub elbows with the Been There Done That before buying into their dream. There would be no need to come ask 'virtual strangers' for 'advice' when prepared with actual experience from known successful operators.
max,pres. sdcoa
good sam advisory council member

Ah, theres my pennies worth to the OP.
Max

Everybody that eats in restaurants thinks they can run one and can do it better. And everybody that stays in RV parks thinks they can run one and can do it better. That may contribute to the rapid turnover in both businesses. It pays to listen to the advice of long time successful owners.
There's an even higher turnover rate for bar drinkers that become bar owners.

So, mostly so I can feel superior, but maybe so the OP will find some value in thinking about some issues about business in Alaska:

- How long have you lived in Alaska? Have you seen a boom-and-bust cycle yet (probably not as Alaska's been on a boom cycle for several years)
- Are you buying a fee simple estate? A leasehold? Is there existing financing on the property?
- Do you know the environmental history of the site? Have you had an environmental assessment done? Will you get the seller to indemnify you? (EPA and DEC will look to all owners in the chain, but the indemnity might provide some recourse to stop making purchase payments).
- Was there ever fuel storage on the property?
- How does this property fit with Anchorage's recently revised zoning and building codes? Any issues with potential zoning changes? Any code upgrades that may be triggered by a sale?
-Does the seller have any long-term rental agreements with tenants? Are those agreements assignable/transferable?
-What liability do you have if Anchorage or wherever pulls a real winter out of it's a** and there are 3 weeks of -30 in January and February? Will you get an indemnity from the seller about on-site water not freezing?
-Have you looked at the Southcentral or wherever long-term roadplan to see what road construction will occur in the next 1 - 4 years...with potential disruptive effect on traffic.

...and now so I can really feel superior: You joined the forum in May of this year. Is that the time period that you've stayed at the RV park? Have you stayed in Alaska in an RV or otherwise through an Alaska winter? There's been a cold day or two so far, but there will be many colder days in December/January/February. Are you ready/willing/able to assist RV owners with cold weather problems?

With all respect, and I don't want to start a fight with anyone, but unless you have owned a business, as your sole support for at least 5 years your knowledge is very limited.

The OP's posts, (both of them) threw up a lot of red flags, for us old guys.

We were not trying to be snotty or mean, we were just trying to say, this is what we have learned from the school of hard knocks.

A huge percentage of new business fail. To not listen to advice from the old warhorses, like SDPARKOWNER. And others is in my opinion unwise

I, too, agree with the OP. This site is often full of "experts" that are quick to tell you that you don't know what you are doing. The sky is typically falling here, and if you do "it" you will die, have no respect for you or your families safety, will loose everything, are required to do "it" anyway as you signed some piece of paper (paper and ink are very powerful here) or are immoral. Did I cover it all?

Bumpyroad wrote:

bigdogger wrote:

BurbMan wrote:

D & M wrote:

noisy wrote:
Wow. Some very interesting replies. I don't, however, recall asking for any of you virtual strangers to judge my competence to make decisions or run a business based on a few brief sentences. I was simply asking what items came up in a formal offer for an rv park that one wouldn't usually see in, say, purchasing a different type of business, or a single family home.

To the individual who recommended a private message to another member, thank you. That may prove helpful. Likewise the individual who mentioned domain name, e-mail, etc. That likewise was helpful, and although something that's been discussed, not something that had yet made it onto paper.

To those of you who eagerly made wild *(( assumptions about my basic intelligence, skill sets, experience and common sense - seriously? Did you really believe you were being helpful, or did you just get a thrill from feeling superior for 2 seconds? Glad I could make your day.

Wow! Hire a manager to be the front man for your campground, because with people skills like yours, you aren't going to attract much repeat business.

LOL this was my first reaction too!

I am siding with the guy buying the park here. He asked for help with the purchase transaction, not advice as to whether he should or should not buy a park, or how he should or should not run one. As for some added advice on the purchase, most lending institutions are going to ask for a "level 1" environmental assessment. This is a basic review looking for things like underground fuel tanks, landfills etc. Probably will cost around one thousand dollars. That should really cover most situations. A survey is a must for most people and will generally be required by any lender. I would have a home inspector look over the buildings, being especially interested in whether there is asbestos in the insulation or construction.
As for financial statements etc., the best confirmation they are accurate would be to ask for utility bills, tax bills and the credit card statements from the park's card processor that correspond to the financial statement. If those match, you have licked about 90% of it. About the only other place they could cook the books would be underreporting wages and repairs/maintenance. And a final thought, if they say they make more money by taking cash and not reporting it to save on taxes, I never count that money. Beating the tax man causes you to lose to the buying man, in my opinion.

the fact is that the OP acted like a horses A** when folks tried to be helpful offering advice and that was totally unnecessary. thus the suggestion to hire an up front man who had some civility and personality. if you want to support him being a total jerk,sort of paints you with the same brush.
bumpy

And if you were requesting information, say as to what you should do when buying a house, you wouldn't be offended at people saying if you don't know how to buy a house you shouldn't own one, or only fools buy homes in Virginia? Buying a business and running one are two separate and completely different scenarios. Just because you need help with one, doesn't mean you are unsuited for the other.

bigdogger wrote:

BurbMan wrote:

D & M wrote:

noisy wrote:
Wow. Some very interesting replies. I don't, however, recall asking for any of you virtual strangers to judge my competence to make decisions or run a business based on a few brief sentences. I was simply asking what items came up in a formal offer for an rv park that one wouldn't usually see in, say, purchasing a different type of business, or a single family home.

To the individual who recommended a private message to another member, thank you. That may prove helpful. Likewise the individual who mentioned domain name, e-mail, etc. That likewise was helpful, and although something that's been discussed, not something that had yet made it onto paper.

To those of you who eagerly made wild *(( assumptions about my basic intelligence, skill sets, experience and common sense - seriously? Did you really believe you were being helpful, or did you just get a thrill from feeling superior for 2 seconds? Glad I could make your day.

Wow! Hire a manager to be the front man for your campground, because with people skills like yours, you aren't going to attract much repeat business.

LOL this was my first reaction too!

I am siding with the guy buying the park here. He asked for help with the purchase transaction, not advice as to whether he should or should not buy a park, or how he should or should not run one. As for some added advice on the purchase, most lending institutions are going to ask for a "level 1" environmental assessment. This is a basic review looking for things like underground fuel tanks, landfills etc. Probably will cost around one thousand dollars. That should really cover most situations. A survey is a must for most people and will generally be required by any lender. I would have a home inspector look over the buildings, being especially interested in whether there is asbestos in the insulation or construction.
As for financial statements etc., the best confirmation they are accurate would be to ask for utility bills, tax bills and the credit card statements from the park's card processor that correspond to the financial statement. If those match, you have licked about 90% of it. About the only other place they could cook the books would be underreporting wages and repairs/maintenance. And a final thought, if they say they make more money by taking cash and not reporting it to save on taxes, I never count that money. Beating the tax man causes you to lose to the buying man, in my opinion.

the fact is that the OP acted like a horses A** when folks tried to be helpful offering advice and that was totally unnecessary. thus the suggestion to hire an up front man who had some civility and personality. if you want to support him being a total jerk,sort of paints you with the same brush.
bumpy

BurbMan wrote:

D & M wrote:

noisy wrote:
Wow. Some very interesting replies. I don't, however, recall asking for any of you virtual strangers to judge my competence to make decisions or run a business based on a few brief sentences. I was simply asking what items came up in a formal offer for an rv park that one wouldn't usually see in, say, purchasing a different type of business, or a single family home.

To the individual who recommended a private message to another member, thank you. That may prove helpful. Likewise the individual who mentioned domain name, e-mail, etc. That likewise was helpful, and although something that's been discussed, not something that had yet made it onto paper.

To those of you who eagerly made wild *(( assumptions about my basic intelligence, skill sets, experience and common sense - seriously? Did you really believe you were being helpful, or did you just get a thrill from feeling superior for 2 seconds? Glad I could make your day.

Wow! Hire a manager to be the front man for your campground, because with people skills like yours, you aren't going to attract much repeat business.

LOL this was my first reaction too!

I am siding with the guy buying the park here. He asked for help with the purchase transaction, not advice as to whether he should or should not buy a park, or how he should or should not run one. As for some added advice on the purchase, most lending institutions are going to ask for a "level 1" environmental assessment. This is a basic review looking for things like underground fuel tanks, landfills etc. Probably will cost around one thousand dollars. That should really cover most situations. A survey is a must for most people and will generally be required by any lender. I would have a home inspector look over the buildings, being especially interested in whether there is asbestos in the insulation or construction.
As for financial statements etc., the best confirmation they are accurate would be to ask for utility bills, tax bills and the credit card statements from the park's card processor that correspond to the financial statement. If those match, you have licked about 90% of it. About the only other place they could cook the books would be underreporting wages and repairs/maintenance. And a final thought, if they say they make more money by taking cash and not reporting it to save on taxes, I never count that money. Beating the tax man causes you to lose to the buying man, in my opinion.

D & M wrote:

noisy wrote:
Wow. Some very interesting replies. I don't, however, recall asking for any of you virtual strangers to judge my competence to make decisions or run a business based on a few brief sentences. I was simply asking what items came up in a formal offer for an rv park that one wouldn't usually see in, say, purchasing a different type of business, or a single family home.

To the individual who recommended a private message to another member, thank you. That may prove helpful. Likewise the individual who mentioned domain name, e-mail, etc. That likewise was helpful, and although something that's been discussed, not something that had yet made it onto paper.

To those of you who eagerly made wild *(( assumptions about my basic intelligence, skill sets, experience and common sense - seriously? Did you really believe you were being helpful, or did you just get a thrill from feeling superior for 2 seconds? Glad I could make your day.

Wow! Hire a manager to be the front man for your campground, because with people skills like yours, you aren't going to attract much repeat business.

LOL this was my first reaction too!

I knew some fellas that bought a manufacturing plant in the Los Angeles area. they inherited land that had been contaminated with petrochemicals and evidently the previous owner's were grandfathered or something but they weren't. it became their problem.
bumpy