Fifth-wheel is winterized, snow is coming down, so there is time to reflect, but I leave worrying about the big problems of the world to others. I can't solve them, anyway. It is usually a pleasure to drive down the road towing my fifth-wheel, but one situation that keeps me on edge is when I am in a town or developed area where the speed limit is (usually) 45 mph and there are traffic lights every mile or so. The yellow light typically comes on for three seconds. Last summer, I was in places where the yellow was on for two seconds. There is no way I can bring my fifth wheel from 45 mph to zero in three seconds, let alone two. When I am not towing, I try to keep a three-second gap behind the car in front. When towing the fifth-wheel, I try increase the gap to seven seconds. (Of course, four-wheelers are constantly pulling in front of me, so the gap is something to try for, not to achieve.) I think that next season, I am also going to drop my speed to 35 or less when approaching any traffic light. It also bothers me that I have never figured out exactly how long it takes me to stop my fifth-wheel at any given speed. I only know that it takes longer to stop when towing. I'm not talking emergency stopping, but the kind of stopping I need when that yellow light comes on. I have never seen any mention of stopping distances in Trailer Life Magazine, and there are too many variables anyway: tow vehicle, trailer, brake controller, tires, road condition. Something that I would like to do with my own trailer (when the snow melts) is take it to a suitable place (I know of a housing development not too far away that may still be all vacant) and try some stops from 45 mph, 35 mph, 25 mph. No wheel-lockup stops here, just "normal" stops. That should help me to figure out what gap to use and what speed to drive, at least with my own truck and trailer. I'll post the results.

LOL The system is designed to make money, so they set them short.The Federal Highway Administration Standard on Uniform Traffic Control Section 4D.10 Yellow Change and Red Clearance Intervals statesStandard A yellow signal indication shall be displayed following every CIRCULAR GREEN or GREEN ARROW signal indication.The exclusive function of the yellow change interval shall be to warn traffic of an impending change in the right-of-way assignment.The duration of a yellow change interval shall be predetermined.Guidance:A yellow change interval should have a duration of approximately 3 to 6 seconds. The longer intervals should be reserved for use on approaches with higher speeds.The Institute of Traffic Engineers have done some calculations and came up with the following:Recommended Yellow Light TimesThree seconds should be the absolute minimum time for any intersection. 25 MPH -- 3.0 Seconds30 MPH -- 3.5 Seconds35 MPH -- 4.0 Seconds40 MPH -- 4.5 Seconds45 MPH -- 5.0 Seconds50 MPH -- 5.5 Seconds55 MPH -- 6.0 Seconds

Wrecked ours at a 50 mph valley light green. Car was stalled slid 450ft into it.

Be careful in Florida. The governor signed a bill allowing the cities to "shorten" the yellow light time, to accommodate red light cameras. Many cities have already gone this route and are reaping the bountiful income it provides.

Did not get a ticket. I avoid those roads like the plague.

When I reach one of those towns, quite common in rural Texas - I drop my speed down to 35 or 30. When I first spot the light, if it is green, I plan on having to stop and slow down even more.Yes, the local yokels don't like me slowing down to 20 before pulling through a green light - but hey - their local folks setup the system.If I ever see a quick yellow that I can't stop, and it happens on rare occasions, I go through with my horn blaring so hopefully no one will pull out in front of me.

Concerned about traffic signals with short yellow light

mikegt4
Explorer
Dec 08, 2013
The Texan wrote:
Hey Jim, is the camera company in the US? I know many communities and states have contracted with companies from out of the country, just for this reason, NOT responsible under US law. AZ was using a company from Australia and several Florida cities were using companies from the far east.

The camera company was out of Maryland. The town is Elmwood Place and it has been a town of speed traps etc. for decades. It is one of several small urban areas (area of approx one sq. mile) around Cincinnati that have been surrounded by other towns or cut off by interstate highways and have little industry and low income populations. Just a few miles north is another such town (Arlington Heights) which the interstate runs through as an elevated highway with no exit. AH has run radar on the highway for years as their main income and recently was exposed when it was found that some of the village officials were pocketing large amounts of the fine revenue.

I used to work about a mile from Elmwood Place and at least once a week someone in the building would get a ticket even when they were well aware of the scam. The speed limit is 25 and 25.1 got you a ticket. They were also infamous for putting "no left turn" signs 20' up utility poles mixed in with commercial signs or tree branches. One of my co-workers asked an Elmwood cop for directions once years before he worked in the area. As he followed the cop's directions he made a left turn and was immediately given a ticket for doing so. It's one of those small towns were all the officials are either related or lifelong friends.

http://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/elmwood-place/elmwood-place-speed-cameras-judge-to-rule-on-motion-for-class-action
LindsayRichards
Explorer
Dec 08, 2013
In Florida, intersections with red light cameras have a small blue light near the stoplight that is included in the photo. If you know about these blue lights, you get a heads up on the existence of a camera at the intersection. There is a blue light visible in each of the four directions. I have read that the cameras drastically increase the incidents of rear end collisions at their intersections.
SailingOn
Explorer
Dec 08, 2013
the bear II wrote:

I used to watch the big semis towing a trailer on city streets and was concerned at how fast they drove and how late they would stop for a signal. Now I know the drivers were confident due to the ability of their trucks to bring a load to a quick and controlled stop. The right setup will make the difference.

Maybe so, but...
For ten years or so I had a clinic on a busy corner. Every 2-3 weeks someone would stop quickly for a light turning red - and a dump truck would plow into them from behind, pushing them out into the intersection. The loud bang with screeching and metal tearing noises draws crowds.
Glance in your mirror when you're making that quick-stop-vs-ticket decision.
westend
Explorer
Dec 08, 2013
Good way to find your stopping distance is to do runs in one of your larger malls or dept. stores when they are closed for business. The painted parking slots are usually equidistant so measure the width and count slots, from brake initiation to fully stopped. Be prepared for an amazement.
EsoxLucius
Explorer
Dec 07, 2013
Jurisdictions do not need to shorten yellow light intervals. People will run red lights even with standard/reasonable yellow light intervals. That should be their revenue base, not entrapping prudent drivers.
Jim_Shoe
Explorer
Dec 07, 2013
Tex,
I don't have a clue. I was told the story by a resident a while ago, and the newspaper story about the court case didn't mention the company's name, probably to avoid being sued themselves by the camera company if they win.
nightshift
Explorer
Dec 07, 2013
We have a nifty system on many roads in The Great White North. It all started on a few roads with 80kph (50mph) limits. When an intersection light was about to turn amber, a set of bright flashing amber lights on an overhead sign about 300m before the intersection would start flashing.
If you had already gone past these lights, no problem. If you were in a position to see them flash, no problem, start coasting. The system works so well they started putting them in lower speed areas with blind corners(can't see the intersection lights). Saves brakes, and cuts down on intersection collisions dramatically.
They could sure use them in Hawaii! That state needs a lot of traffic engineering help.
The_Texan
Explorer
Dec 07, 2013
Hey Jim, is the camera company in the US? I know many communities and states have contracted with companies from out of the country, just for this reason, NOT responsible under US law. AZ was using a company from Australia and several Florida cities were using companies from the far east.
Jim_Shoe
Explorer
Dec 07, 2013
There's an incorporated town within the Cincinnati area that was famous for their short yellow lights with cameras. Its how the town and the camera company made their money. A district judge recently ordered the town and the company that installed the cameras to return every cent of the fines they collected over the years and ordered the cameras removed. It also opens up the town and camera company to a ton of lawsuits for any accidents and injuries that were caused over the years. And there were a bunch. I predict a bankrupt town and camera company in the future. Lawyers are circling the wagons.
paulm999
Explorer
Dec 07, 2013
Back in the early 2000's the red light cameras in San Diego were challenged, based mostly on the yellow interval time that was shortened to increase revenue. Hundreds of tickets were dismissed and San Diego was ordered to increase the yellow interval time. (Unfortunately, while tickets were dismissed, court costs for each ticket were not.) The result of the ruling was the most generous yellow time interval in the USA. Other cities generally aligned their red light camera programs with this ruling. For those folks in jurisdictions with red light cameras, hang in there. Now 10 years later, all cities in San Diego County have discontinued their programs because of decreased revenues. In fact, most programs ran in the red (pun intended) during the last few years. Unfortunately for those not in the know,, all cities are leaving the cameras and signs up.

PS: Next big thing will be the mobile speed cameras. They will be worth billions every year for contractors and the State general fund in a State where 70% of the traffic travels 20-40mph over any and all speed limits. All eyes are on Chicago's speed camera rollout.

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