Did my Andersen No-Sway WDH do this???

09KZMXT266 wrote:

How do you explain I dropped the trailer off with a perfectly good frame, and I picked it up with a damaged one. I didn't tow it home with the plate, so the plate could not have caused it on my 7 mile drive home. To be fair I only saw the hole after installing the plate and tightening the chain nuts. Maybe I should have titled the thread did installing the Andersen damage my trailer frame?

I'm guessing that the trailer only appeared to have a perfectly good frame when you dropped it off.
It is quite possible that, in the 2000 miles of towing, the horizontal friction force caused by the plate rubbing against the bottom of the weld bead resulted in cumulative low-cycle high-stress fatigue damage between bead and frame metal.

Certain aluminum alloys are know to be susceptible to stress corrosion cracking.
The microscopic cracking might have gotten worse over the winter due to humidity and other factors.

When you got the trailer home, it is quite possible that installing the plate and tightening the chain nuts caused 1) the rear of the plate to push upward against the bottom of the weld bead, and 2) the rear of the plate to rotate to the right.
The right-directed friction force acting on the bottom of the bead could have caused the final failure of the already-weakened weld.

So, I think it is quite possible that the 2000 miles of towing with the plate rubbing against the bottom of the bead weakened the weld,
and the installation of the plate after returning from storage was the "final straw" which caused the bead to separate from the frame metal.

Ron

Ron Gratz wrote:

09KZMXT266 wrote:

How do you explain I dropped the trailer off with a perfectly good frame, and I picked it up with a damaged one. I didn't tow it home with the plate, so the plate could not have caused it on my 7 mile drive home. To be fair I only saw the hole after installing the plate and tightening the chain nuts. Maybe I should have titled the thread did installing the Andersen damage my trailer frame?

I'm guessing that the trailer only appeared to have a perfectly good frame when you dropped it off.
It is quite possible that, in the 2000 miles of towing, the horizontal friction force caused by the plate rubbing against the bottom of the weld bead resulted in cumulative low-cycle high-stress fatigue damage between bead and frame metal.

Certain aluminum alloys are know to be susceptible to stress corrosion cracking.
The microscopic cracking might have gotten worse over the winter due to humidity and other factors.


When you got the trailer home, it is quite possible that installing the plate and tightening the chain nuts caused 1) the rear of the plate to push upward against the bottom of the weld bead, and 2) the rear of the plate to rotate to the right.
The right-directed friction force acting on the bottom of the bead could have caused the final failure of the already-weakened weld.

So, I think it is quite possible that the 2000 miles of towing with the plate rubbing against the bottom of the bead weakened the weld,
and the installation of the plate after returning from storage was the "final straw" which caused the bead to separate from the frame metal.

Ron

Wow, this whole thing is stressing me out. BTW, the over 2K miles or towing with the Andersen was just in the last month. My trailer was not in storage. It sat at the service center for two weeks awaiting some work. I am not saying you Re wrong, but I would hope that the Andersen WDH isn't destroying my trailer.
Also, i just got home from another 600 mile tow. No additional damage that I can see with the exception of some additional rub marks on the plate.

Asked if the plate shows marks or paint scraped off...the OP has not
answered that

I've owned several fork lifts (all used or leased) for my startups and
all of them came with a punched or torched hole on both fork ends like this image



I'm "almost" absolutely sure the shop that worked on your trailer did
this with their fork lift's fork tip.

My shop guys moved our utility trailers around with that setup and
most times hand tightened ball....must have wobbled and that is where
I think is the main culprit (in addition to how much the tip stuck out
past the ball center line)

The 'almost' has to do with the many marks at different heights

If a fork lift fork tip...then only one mark or all very close in
height

The difference in height says Ron's assessment and my first impression
is that the Anderson Plate did it during Whoop-De-Doos...or that the
pavement at the service yard not level...or the fork lift had the forks
in different angles...



The other issue remains...poor practices from the trailer OEM. Again
look at the torn picture. Both sheetmetal pieces should have been
sheared straight and the welding (melt both pieces and a filler wire
to then solidify into one) shows one side did NOT melt.

If it did melt, then torn would leave a jagged edge

Ben, sorry but not sure what you mean? There are definitly marks or scrapes on the plate. They all appear to be crom rubbing on the bottom of frame.

Based on all the information provided by OP and examining the pictures as closely as possible I still think the damage to the frame was done at the shop. Probably from using a forklift and either coming in too hard and hitting with ball or fork, or as others have alluded from the fork end hitting frame during turn or over bumps. As I said before it appears as if the dent in the frame caused some downward bending or tearing. May not be much but enough that with an already narrow clearance it caused the frame to rub on plate. Although the welds might not be the best and they don't appear to be I don't think they have anything to do with the initial damage.

I read all the posts and looked at the pictures repeatedly and I have to disagree with the engineers on this. I think this was definitely caused by the forklift at the dealer for multiple reasons.

The scuff marks on the plate might explain the weld separating, but they don't explain how the aluminum got lifted torn and folded like it is. That lifting and tearing is from something besides a flat plate rubbing on the bottom of the frame.

If you look at the two pictures you can see where the forklift rammed into the tip of the tongue at least 4 different times as they were picking up and moving the trailer. There are at least four horizontal marks that match across both sides of the tongue. These marks are either from the flat Anderson plate or a forklift tip. They cannot be from the plate as the tow ball will not physically allow the plate to be that high on the tongue so that leaves the forklift.

My guess is that on one of the moves the lot guy was overconfident and under experienced. He came in a bit off center and started the forks going up at the same time as the ball was near where it should go. His intent was a smooth in and up motion and he misjudged or was using a different forklift and jammed the fork tip into the aluminum tongue while the forks were rising. The end result was he took the frame end that was poorly welded or already separated from the plate rubbing, and ripped it up and back.
If you look at the first picture you can see the rectangular mark where the fork tip was buried in the fold of the crease as it went up.

OP, if you truly want the truth the only way to find out is to take the trailer back and have them put the forklift tip up under the tongue. I think at that time it will be obvious if the forklift is at fault.

I would probably be more curious though if this tear has compromised the strength of the tongue. My guess is that it does not and the end cap is really cosmetic. But I don't really know metallurgy to answer the question.

09KZMXT266 wrote:
---Also, i just got home from another 600 mile tow. No additional damage that I can see with the exception of some additional rub marks on the plate.

Did you have the damaged weld repaired before going on the latest 600 mile tow?

Can you post a photo of the additional rub marks on the plate?

Ron

Ron Gratz wrote:

09KZMXT266 wrote:
---Also, i just got home from another 600 mile tow. No additional damage that I can see with the exception of some additional rub marks on the plate.

Did you have the damaged weld repaired before going on the latest 600 mile tow?

Can you post a photo of the additional rub marks on the plate?

Ron

No, I left right after picking it up for a weekend trip, so nothing is fixed. Here are some pics from tonight....

This image says it all to me...



Looks like approx 0.50" to 0.75" or so over lap

With that kind of over lap or potential interference...there is no way
it would NOT have torn a much BIGGER gouge

Plus, with that kind of over lap, don't think it could raise high enough
to do what your original pictures shows without messing up the bottom
on it's way up there

Gotta be the service folks and their fork lift

Another betcha that their fork end will match up with the marks AKA like
a bullet's rifling

To the comment that is okay to have this kind of damage...not for me
as think of the whole trailer's forces all focused on the coupler, FACT

That then has the rest of the tongue transfer those forces between
the truck and trailer via that tongue...

Sure okay for a while, but how about over time?


Repeat...you have two claims or that I'd have if me

#1 against the service company and their fork lift

#2 against the trailer OEM for workmanship

BenK wrote:
This image says it all to me...
Looks like approx 0.50" to 0.75" or so over lap

Ben, I really am trying to understand what you're saying. So -- I hope you don't mind some questions for clarification.

When you refer to "overlap" -- what is overlapping what?

With that kind of over lap or potential interference...there is no way it would NOT have torn a much BIGGER gouge

What are you talking about when you refer to "it". IOW, what would have torn a much bigger gouge?

Plus, with that kind of over lap, don't think it could raise high enough to do what your original pictures shows without messing up the bottom on it's way up there

Again, what is "it", and how high would "it" have had to rise to cause whatever damage is shown by the original pictures?

Another betcha that their fork end will match up with the marks AKA like a bullet's rifling

Which "marks" are you referring to? Member opnspaces, on 06/02/14 04:40pm, referred to "at least four horizontal marks that match across both sides of the tongue." Are you referring to the same marks?

Repeat...you have two claims or that I'd have if me

#1 against the service company and their fork lift

Can you please describe the scenario which you believe caused the damage?
How do you think the forklift was being maneuvered, and what part of the fork hit what part of the tongue?

#2 against the trailer OEM for workmanship

Assuming the fork tip did, in fact, make contact with the tongue, do you really believe that better "workmanship" would have resulted in no damage?

Ron