Dinghy towing question

gotsmart wrote:

wbwood wrote:

mowermech wrote:

wbwood wrote:

I'm actually amazed at how lienent most of the country is. Just a few states require them on anything less than 3000 lbs. According to Brake Buddy's website.

Chances are, you will find on closer examination, that Brake Buddy is quoting TRAILER braking laws. In many states, a towed motor vehicle is NOT considered a trailer, according to the legal definition.
It is obvious the various states do not consider the risk worthy of legal note.

You would think brake buddy would post the most stringent information in hopes of selling more devices.

...

Why would they post information that contradicts a requirement for braking solutions? Brake Buddy is in the business of selling braking solutions. If quoting trailer laws gives it the best possible marketing exposure for its product - however misleading in some cases - then trailer laws they will use.

And your remark is different from mine, how?

wbwood wrote:

mowermech wrote:

wbwood wrote:

I'm actually amazed at how lienent most of the country is. Just a few states require them on anything less than 3000 lbs. According to Brake Buddy's website.

Chances are, you will find on closer examination, that Brake Buddy is quoting TRAILER braking laws. In many states, a towed motor vehicle is NOT considered a trailer, according to the legal definition.
It is obvious the various states do not consider the risk worthy of legal note.

You would think brake buddy would post the most stringent information in hopes of selling more devices.

...

Why would they post information that contradicts a requirement for braking solutions? Brake Buddy is in the business of selling braking solutions. If quoting trailer laws gives it the best possible marketing exposure for its product - however misleading in some cases - then trailer laws they will use.

Actually, section (h) refers to brake fluid and brake linings only.
It would be interesting to find out exactly which types and brands are approved "by the Commissioner".

Thanks mower mech. I know have seen the actual laws somewhere before online and go the life of me I couldn't find it. I think because I was looking through the DMV site mainly.

So it is 4000 lbs (2 tons) and 1000 on house trailers.

On section h it says no one can sell brake systems not approved by the commissioner. So should I assume that if dealers are selling it here in nc them it is approved? Or one would assume they are approved? Lol

Go here for the NC braking laws:
http://www.ncleg.net/enactedlegislation/statutes/html/bysection/chapter_20/gs_20-124.html

Here is a "copy and paste":


§ 20?124. Brakes.

(a) Every motor vehicle when operated upon a highway shall be equipped with brakes adequate to control the movement of and to stop such vehicle or vehicles, and such brakes shall be maintained in good working order and shall conform to regulations provided in this section.

(b) Repealed by Session Laws 1973, c. 1330, s. 39.

(c) Every motor vehicle when operated on a highway shall be equipped with brakes adequate to control the movement of and to stop and hold such vehicle, and shall have all originally equipped brakes in good working order, including two separate means of applying the brakes. If these two separate means of applying the brakes are connected in any way, they shall be so constructed that failure of any one part of the operating mechanism shall not leave the motor vehicle without brakes.

(d) Every motorcycle and every motor?driven cycle when operated upon a highway shall be equipped with at least one brake which may be operated by hand or foot.

(e) Motor trucks and tractor?trucks with semitrailers attached shall be capable of stopping on a dry, hard, approximately level highway free from loose material at a speed of 20 miles per hour within the following distances: Thirty feet with both hand and service brake applied simultaneously and 50 feet when either is applied separately, except that vehicles maintained and operated permanently for the transportation of property and which were registered in this or any other state or district prior to August, 1929, shall be capable of stopping on a dry, hard, approximately level highway free from loose material at a speed of 20 miles per hour within a distance of 50 feet with both hand and service brake applied simultaneously, and within a distance of 75 feet when either applied separately.

(e1) Every motor truck and truck?tractor with semitrailer attached, shall be equipped with brakes acting on all wheels, except trucks and truck?tractors having three or more axles need not have brakes on the front wheels if manufactured prior to July 25, 1980. However, such trucks and truck?tractors must be capable of complying with the performance requirements of G.S. 20?124(e).

(f) Every semitrailer, or trailer, or separate vehicle, attached by a drawbar or coupling to a towing vehicle, and having a gross weight of two tons, and all house trailers of 1,000 pounds gross weight or more, shall be equipped with brakes controlled or operated by the driver of the towing vehicle, which shall conform to the specifications set forth in subsection (e) of this section and shall be of a type approved by the Commissioner.

It shall be unlawful for any person or corporation engaged in the business of selling house trailers at wholesale or retail to sell or offer for sale any house trailer which is not equipped with the brakes required by this subsection.

This subsection shall not apply to house trailers being used as dwellings, or to house trailers not intended to be used or towed on public highways and roads. This subsection shall not apply to house trailers with a manufacturer's certificate of origin dated prior to December 31, 1974.

(g) The provisions of this section shall not apply to a trailer when used by a farmer, a farmer's tenant, agent, or employee if the trailer is exempt from registration by the provisions of G.S. 20?51. This exemption does not apply to trailers that are equipped with brakes from the manufacturer and that are manufactured after October 1, 2009.

(h) From and after July 1, 1955, no person shall sell or offer for sale for use in motor vehicle brake systems in this State any hydraulic brake fluid of a type and brand other than those approved by the Commissioner of Motor Vehicles. From and after January 1, 1970, no person shall sell or offer for sale in motor vehicle brake systems any brake lining of a type or brand other than those approved by the Commissioner of Motor Vehicles. Violation of the provisions of this subsection shall constitute a Class 2 misdemeanor. (1937, c. 407, s. 87; 1953, c. 1316, s. 2; 1955, c. 1275; 1959, c. 990; 1965, c. 1031; 1967, c. 1188; 1969, cc. 787, 866; 1973, c. 1203; c. 1330, s. 39; 1993, c. 539, s. 359; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 2009?376, ss. 10, 11.)

Section (f) is, IMO, the section for RVers to take note of. It would be interesting to determine exactly which brakings systems have been "approved by the Commisionner of Motor Vehicles"!
Another interesting point: "shall be equipped with brakes controlled or operated by the driver of the towing vehicle"! since surge braking systems are primarily automatic, and the driver of the tow vehicle has minimal control over the brake application, is such a system legal in NC? I don't know!

willald wrote:
wbwood, I have a question for you, now: Where in NC laws did you find, read, that you are OK to tow less than 4,000 lbs without brakes, if its not a 'house' trailer? I coulda sworn last time I looked at NC laws, the cutoff was at 2,000 lbs, not 4,000. I could be wrong, though..

here and I want to say I saw it somewhere else too...but to be honest, I think there are differences among the sites. I tried looking for an official state of NC website quickly and couldn't find the answer there.

wbwood wrote:
Ok, another question. There has been talk about 4 wheels down vs tow dolly. A good big of the argument for the 4 wheels down crowd is they say how quick it's easy to connect/disconnect. Are those people using something like the brake buddy or another braking system that they have to hook up? I don't remember seeing anyone mention doing the braking system in their talking about a quick hookup and disconnect. Maybe they aren't using a brake system? Or just not mentioning that part?

Very good point. Using a brake system like Brake buddy or any other one that requires you to put in and take it out definitely takes away some of the quick/easy advantage of 4 down towing.

Those that talk about how quick and easy 4 down towing is, like you said, they are probably not thinking about or mentioning the brake part, or aren't using a brake system.

That, or they are using a brake system that does not require anything to be installed or removed when hitching up or unhitching. There are a few systems like that - Invisibrake, SMI, M&G, ReadyBrake.

I highly, highly recommend the ReadyBrake. You just can't beat it, IMO - Simple, cable-operated surge system, no electronics to foul up and damage your brakes, or run the battery down. Once installed and set up correclty, it is just about impossible for it to ever over-brake your toad and damage brakes like some other systems are known to do. And, nothing to install or take out when hitching up or unhitching.

To top all that off, as noted previously, the Readybrake costs CONSIDERABLY less than all the others. If you get their ReadyBrute Elite tow bar that comes with ReadyBrake, you are getting both a tow bar AND braking system for about the same $$ you'd pay for a tow bar alone, so its saving you nearly $1k in that case.

wbwood, I have a question for you, now: Where in NC laws did you find, read, that you are OK to tow less than 4,000 lbs without brakes, if its not a 'house' trailer? I coulda sworn last time I looked at NC laws, the cutoff was at 2,000 lbs, not 4,000. I could be wrong, though..

Thanks luvlabs....

Ok, another question. There has been talk about 4 wheels down vs tow dolly. A good big of the argument for the 4 wheels down crowd is they say how quick it's easy to connect/disconnect. Are those people using something like the brake buddy or another braking system that they have to hook up? I don't remember seeing anyone mention doing the braking system in their talking about a quick hookup and disconnect. Maybe they aren't using a brake system? Or just not mentioning that part?

BlueOX makes a similar system - AutoStop.

Any brake system can be a problem if not adjusted or installed correctly. Allways check your setup before you leave.

mowermech wrote:

wbwood wrote:

WyoTraveler wrote:
JMHO. I have towed with & without braking system. I have my Blue Ox Patriot set high & still find with not following close, watching far ahead my toad brakes very seldom activate. However, if you do make a panic stop they help. Plus many states require them. My state of WY does not. I Just don't want to get a cite in a state that requires the braking system. I recommend getting it.

I'm actually amazed at how lienent most of the country is. Just a few states require them on anything less than 3000 lbs. According to Brake Buddy's website.

Chances are, you will find on closer examination, that Brake Buddy is quoting TRAILER braking laws. In many states, a towed motor vehicle is NOT considered a trailer, according to the legal definition.
It is obvious the various states do not consider the risk worthy of legal note.

You would think brake buddy would post the most stringent information in hopes of selling more devices.

But I've seen similar information posted on other websites. My car is actually about 2500 lbs.