ethanol

I'm wont to closing this thread now, but really, some great info here.

CLOSED

JaxDad wrote:
Of course, speaking of chemistry, a gallon of water when blended with gasoline and flashed into steam in a hot engine becomes 1,235 gallons of hydrogen and 622 gallons of oxygen.

And more BS...An automotive engine combustion cycle gets not even close to the temperature of thermal decomposition of water.

So what else are you going to come up with?

JaxDad wrote:
Using the extremely conservative EPA figures of 0.5% water by volume in E10 fuel my 75 gallon would then contain 3.75 gallons of water.

Seriously? If you are going to respond, at least figure out how to use math!

JaxDad wrote:
As the old saying goes .......... “It looked good on paper.”

Especially when you can't figure out how percentages work!

BCSnob wrote:
The balanced chemical reaction for octane burning is C8H18 + 12.5 O2 => 8 CO2 + 9 H2O

Uh, what does this have to do with Gasoline engines. They run on Gasoline, Octane may be the rating, but it's not the product.

Terryallan wrote:
Has any one heard the rumor that they may stop forcing us to buy gas with ethanol in it? I read the program may be stopped.

IMOP would be a good thing. Ethanol robs power, hurts MPG, and causes more maintenance.

Really? How come them the OEM dyno charts for say, the GM 5.3L engine, show a 10 hp and 5 lb torque gain just from using E85 over regular gas.?

And how is it, that the Cummins 2.8L Ethos E85 engine has more torque, at half the RPM, and better fuel economy than the 5.7L Hemi engine?

Or how the Ricardo 3.6L EBDI E85 engine has equal power as the 6.6L Duramax diesel and gets equivalent fuel economy?

Now to be fair, in a NA engine primarily made for gasoline, ethanol does not shine. Just like any fuel, the engine needs to be made to take advantage of the full characteristics of the fuel to make it look good.

But let's take something like that 5.3L GM engine, or even the L96 6.0L in my 2500. On regular, my 6.0L in that 3/4 ton gets about 13-14 mpg average. On E85, it gets about 10-11. Now that sounds bad, but may not be. At $2.39 for regular in my area, at 13 mpg that is 18.4 cents a mile fuel cost. E85 in my ares is $1.79, and at 10 mpg, that is about 17.9 cents a mile fuel cost.... a half cent a mile cheaper! And when we were going thru that $4 a gallon for gas a few years back, I could get E85 for $1 to $1.50 a gallon cheaper. My vehicles lived on E85 for almost 2 years. Neither of them had one fuel related issue in that time.

I am not for anyone being forced to buy anything, but blanket myopic statements about the fuel like yours really shows a true lack of familiarity with the fuel and a bias based on ignorance. And the feds do not force anyone to buy ethanol. That is a state directed issue. I live in ethanol central... the corn capitol of America with 46 ethanol plants in my state. Yet, in my state, I can get ethanol free gasoline any time I want at a myriad of outlets around me. I can get E10, E15, E20, E30, and E85 also. Totally a free choice. If the corn lobby were behind forcing ethanol on people, we would have only that option. The corn lobby owns the Iowa state economy and politics. The Feds only mandate that 14 billion gallons of ethanol be used as motor fuel in the country each year. They do not break that down and say everyone has to be forced to use any of it. It could all be used in higher blends that many standard gasoline vehicles couldn't use anyway.

Is ethanol hydroscopic? Yes indeed. But unless someone is filling their fuel tank in a driving rainstorm or adding water some other way, it should never be an issue. Automotive fuel systems are not vented to the atmosphere. And any water from condensation is quickly taken up by the ethanol in the fuel and move out. Don't equate a lawnmower or chain saw with a vented fuel system that can attract moisture with a automotive one.

the danger of water in in GAS is in being free floating, in seperation, in clogging the carb bowl

water retained in the alcohol does not do this

people used to add deicer to their gas in the winter time, to prevent fuel line icing up

the deicer was 'alcohol' we bought and poured in tank
like other additives

no difference except now its in there year around

The balanced chemical reaction for octane burning is C8H18 + 12.5 O2 => 8 CO2 + 9 H2O

wnjj wrote:

JaxDad wrote:
Using the extremely conservative EPA figures of 0.5% water by volume in E10 fuel my 75 gallon would then contain 3.75 gallons of water.

I think you slipped a decimal point there. ;)

yup, he did. and an ICE engine burns hydrogen AND gets energy from the carbon combining with oxygen to for CO2. both are exothermic reactions, one yields water one yields CO2.

and heat of combustion of carbon is actually higher than that of hydrogen.

JaxDad wrote:

Of course, speaking of chemistry, a gallon of water when blended with gasoline and flashed into steam in a hot engine becomes 1,235 gallons of hydrogen and 622 gallons of oxygen.

speaking of chemistry.......

steam is still water
Water is a product of combustion
Splitting water into molecular hydrogen and molecular oxygen at the same time is not as easy as you describe

JaxDad wrote:
Using the extremely conservative EPA figures of 0.5% water by volume in E10 fuel my 75 gallon would then contain 3.75 gallons of water.

I think you slipped a decimal point there. ;)