ethanol

Gdetrailer wrote:

MWOwner wrote:
I usually don't reply to topics like this, but there have been some really big mistruths told on this topic. First of all the production of ethanol has a net positive energy balance even if you go back to the production of the corn. Modern ethanol plants have become very efficient. Second, the comment about using food for fuel doesn't describe what is actually happening. When corn is used in the production of ethanol, only part of the starch is used in the fermentation. What is left is a very high quality, and high in protein feed that is in high demand for livestock. There is no shortage of starch in the world. Also, ethanol has replaced MTBE that was used in our gas to reduce pollution. Well the MTBE was found to be a carcinogin that was getting into our water. Ethanol is a very safe additive that petroleum companies like to use in gas. It allows them to use a very low quality, low octane gas that doesn't have to refined as much and add the ethanol and come up with an 87 octane fuel. This poor quality gas that is used in the blend could be where some of the issues come from with using e10.

Wrong.

I would guess that you are in a corn farmer lobby, a corn farmer or have an interest in Ethanol production..

What you describe is impossible, you are describing an "over Unity" device, AKA PERPETUAL MOTION.

It takes energy to convert one thing to another, that is the law of Energy conservation.

That law says you cannot create energy or destroy energy but you can change it from one form to another.. The kicker there is each time you change the form of energy there IS some losses in the process.. Often this is in a form of heat, heat that is not recoverable to be able to put back into your new form of product.

Planting, cultivating, harvesting, moving corn, processing corn, making Ethanol from the corn ALL USES ENERGY.

Where does that energy come from?

Not corn.

Not solar.

Not wind.

Not nuclear.

The most of the energy comes from OIL.

Yep, OIL is key here, takes oil to prep the soil, oil to plant the seed, oil to harvest, oil to move the harvest to the plant..

Then at the plant they may use a variety of other energy like electricity (where do you think the electricity comes from?), natural gas or even more oil..

Then there is some other issues that nobody wants to talk about..

Like how destructive corn is to the soil..

Corn is extremely hard on the soil, takes most of the natural nutrients out of the soil which means one MUST ADD FERTILIZER to the soil just to get it to grow.. Then after the harvest you must add more fertilizers for the next season.

Guess what modern day fertilizers are made from?

OIL.

Yep, main ingredient or feed stock of fertilizers is OIL.

By the way, one must come up with the initial corn seed to plant, yeah, OIL is at work developing the corn seed that is used to plant the corn..

No matter how you try to spin it, making Ethanol for fuel usage is a NET NEGATIVE ENERGY when you start looking at the ENTIRE process, not just a small sample of a Ethanol plant efficiency..

Ethanol is not a "created" clean energy, it is a DIRTY NEGATIVE ENERGY (which means you put more energy into it than what you will ever get out of it).

Disagree if you like but that IS the truth.

Of course, it stands to reason that someone from Iowa is pimping corn growing, considering his or those around him make their livelihood from growing corn.
I don't mean this in a negative way either. I'm all for infrastructure improvements. Pass another tax bill to fund highways and bridges. I don't care. I'll pay and be happy about it.
Why? Because I make my money building roads and bridges. I'll tell you every 2 lane fneeds to be a 4 lane because I want to build it or at least have my competition busy so I can build the next road and make good money on it so I get a raise and a good bonus.

It's not rocket science folks and I wouldn't argue about it. Everyone has their own personal or professional agenda even if they profess not to or think they are unbiased.
Why? Because it's human nature to try to succeed or excel personally and professionally.
And for those that that is not a goal, well come along for the ride. The rest of the world needs you as well.