ethanol

babock wrote:

JaxDad wrote:


I have a neighbour who’s a real ‘salt of the earth’ kinda guy, well into his 80’s. He smokes 1.5’ish packs of smokes a day, says he has since was 15. He’s in great shape, lives on his own, still farms part-time even.

By your logic the argument could be made that cigarettes are not bad for you let alone kill you.

LOL..yet all we have is anecdotal stories of how bad E10 is when it is in fact fine other than a 3.3% mileage loss.

BTW..former GM engineer here working with engine ECUs. My best friend who is a chemical engineer at Chevron laughs at these threads. So much BS as he says.

How many small engines are you testing over there at GM with 6 month old Chevron gas without additives?

Yeah, I see the humor, too ;)

JaxDad wrote:


I have a neighbour who’s a real ‘salt of the earth’ kinda guy, well into his 80’s. He smokes 1.5’ish packs of smokes a day, says he has since was 15. He’s in great shape, lives on his own, still farms part-time even.

By your logic the argument could be made that cigarettes are not bad for you let alone kill you.

LOL..yet all we have is anecdotal stories of how bad E10 is when it is in fact fine other than a 3.3% mileage loss.

BTW..former GM engineer here working with engine ECUs. My best friend who is a chemical engineer at Chevron laughs at these threads. So much BS as he says.

drsteve wrote:

DiskDoctr wrote:
Although some claim those who have repeatedly had problems with ethanol polluted gasoline are somehow either stupid or lying about their experiences, I can absolutely assure you I deal with these problems regularly with gasoline over 6 months old.

Fact. Repeatable. Solid.

Some of us, including me, have no problems with E10.

I have a neighbour who’s a real ‘salt of the earth’ kinda guy, well into his 80’s. He smokes 1.5’ish packs of smokes a day, says he has since was 15. He’s in great shape, lives on his own, still farms part-time even.

By your logic the argument could be made that cigarettes are not bad for you let alone kill you.

Another thing to consider about the ethanol-polluted gasoline...what happens when the fuel supply is interrupted, say by a hurricane or whatever?

You got it. Only a very small supply of gas is available with virtually NO PERSONAL RESERVES (ever price enough Stabil to treat 200 gal tank?) due to the polluted and unstable mixture.

1970's gas shortages, we had a tank here with fuel for tractors and such. Sure, we rationed, but we had to have fuel for tractors, not just grocery getters.

Want a STABLE and SUSTAINABLE fuel supply? First rule is ensuring your supplies can survive and meet the needs during interrupted or unfavorable supply.

As a country we are in a very FRAGILE situation. Only one minor bump away from $5/gal pump gas. Or worse :(

mowermech wrote:
My Outdoor Power Equipment (OPE) gas cans sit for 3 to 6 months all year long, with Sta-Bil in the fuel. No problems. As previously stated, I have a can of 2 stroke fuel mixed and ready to use, that is at least 2 years old. No problem.

I covered this under "additives" comments ;)

If end users must use additives to make the product acceptable for ordinary use, that is a FAIL of the provider.

If "gas stations" consider "normal use" as onroad vehicles only, a little ethanol is okay.

I fully support SEPARATE PUMPS for OFFROAD-NONETHANOL fuel without road taxes.

If you *want* ethanol, you can have it. If you want to be VEGAN, you can do that, too. But you don't see meat being OUTLAWED. LOL.

a little research showed it was originally distilled from wood
but to day is MFG thru chemical synthesis using natural gas etc. and Carbon Monoxide

i made a comment about gumming
which is a major compliant from the anti-alky people, those that have had problems

this 'problem' occurs when the alky evaporates leaving behind the compounds it leached out of fuel lines etc.

its NOT from the Alky per-se

i do not know how strong the solvent effects are on 'M' and i would expect automotive grade fuel lines being MFG 'now' to with stand the effects
but i can see where problems could arise with 'vintage' engines and fuel hoses , gaskets etc..

MrWizard wrote:
Everybody is talking ethanol
Where is the info on methanol

Corn alcohol i understand
But isn't methanol wood alcohol
Is this the one that is more harmful
The one that gums things up
I know it's posionous

Wood alcohol is only more harmful if you consume it.

Fact is there are several alternative alcohols and ways to make them that put Corn to shame.. But the Government is not interested in supporting research... Alas I do not have links handy.

MrWizard wrote:
Everybody is talking ethanol
Where is the info on methanol

Corn alcohol i understand
But isn't methanol wood alcohol
Is this the one that is more harmful
The one that gums things up
I know it's posionous

Wood alcohol?

That would upset the tree huggers for sure..

Can't cut that tree down in my back yard, there may a endangered owl living in it :S

Don't think there is a tree growing lobby that could go up against the corn lobby..

In reality, many plants can be fermented into an alcohol but the problem is just how much work and energy has to go into it.

If I remember correctly, a type of grass called Switchgrass was promising. It is a native grass, easier to grow, had a higher yield per acre and only requires being planted ONCE..

I think processing may be a bit more which is most likely you don't see wood or grass alcohol..

HERE is an article on Switchgrass..

I am not opposed to some quantity of alcohol in gas, it does serve a purpose of an Oxygenate but at 10% it is being used as a "filler" to water down the gas..

Lower concentrations can be used and still get the Oxygenating effect they are looking for. But because of green energy folks that mean well, think they are liberating mankind from using Petroleum based products. I highly doubt that it will ever be dropped down to the 2%-5% range that it used to be at..

Turtle, I just checked the label on a jug of Everclear. It is 95% grain alcohol or 190 proof.

Think that would melt your ice cubes? :B

MrWizard wrote:
Everybody is talking ethanol
Where is the info on methanol

Corn alcohol i understand
But isn't methanol wood alcohol
Is this the one that is more harmful
The one that gums things up
I know it's posionous

More harmful to what? Gums things up? All alky dries clear so nothing to gum up like gasoline.

Both are hydroscopic and that is a bad thing. Methanol puts out more power but you also use about 2x's the amount as gasoline. You use a little less with ethanol but still a lot. You can't buy E100 anyway because people like me would mix it with Coke and drink it! :B

A lot of racers like E85 because the government now subsidize their racing habit! I wish my car could burn it or I would.