Flying J / Pilot to install megachargers for med/heavy trks

dedmiston wrote:
Did I hijack a thread? Yes. And normally I would apologize to the Reisenders, but they start enough threads that they can spare one.

And is this bad manners on my part? Absolutely yes.

But what's worse, bad manners or slavery?

There is a ton of cheerleading for EVs on this forum and I've been pretty fair about not interjecting into the discussions except when the cheerleaders hijack other threads. But that was until I saw this info about the Chinese owned slave mines in the Congo.

In my opinion it's wrong of me to stand by and not say anything about the proliferation of the EVs when that's exacerbating the human rights problems.

Honestly, I don't know that I've ever met anyone from the Congo and I don't actually know anything about the Congolese. Maybe they're all jerks and don't deserve our concern. That's doubtful, but maybe.

But a lot of Americans didn't have strong enough convictions to stand up and say anything about the Jews in the 40s. What if we had?

It seems like a good time to take a stand though. Pick a side. Be on the side who buys a new EV and makes the problem worse, or be on the side who stands up and says it's wrong and tries to hold the EV buyers accountable.

Sure. But are you against EV’s in general or just those that use cobalt. Roughly half.

Are you against gas and diesel vehicles are just those that use cobalt. Roughly…you know..ALL of them.

Lots of things use cobalt.

Jmho.

Did I hijack a thread? Yes. And normally I would apologize to the Reisenders, but they start enough threads that they can spare one.

And is this bad manners on my part? Absolutely yes.

But what's worse, bad manners or slavery?

There is a ton of cheerleading for EVs on this forum and I've been pretty fair about not interjecting into the discussions except when the cheerleaders hijack other threads. But that was until I saw this info about the Chinese owned slave mines in the Congo.

In my opinion it's wrong of me to stand by and not say anything about the proliferation of the EVs when that's exacerbating the human rights problems.

Honestly, I don't know that I've ever met anyone from the Congo and I don't actually know anything about the Congolese. Maybe they're all jerks and don't deserve our concern. That's doubtful, but maybe.

But a lot of Americans didn't have strong enough convictions to stand up and say anything about the Jews in the 40s. What if we had?

It seems like a good time to take a stand though. Pick a side. Be on the side who buys a new EV and makes the problem worse, or be on the side who stands up and says it's wrong and tries to hold the EV buyers accountable.

dedmiston wrote:
Nah. I like this thread thanks.

LOL. :). Heh heh. I’d complain to an admin but…you know…:).

Cheers.

Maybe this thread should be closed or better yet deleted. Reisender should know better than to start an EV thread here. Responding to EV bashing is one thing but deliberately baiting these guys is another. dedmiston as an Admin should know better than to post this kind of unhinged rant, regardless of how outraged he is about children in the Congo or whatever. JMO....

The key words in the original link being: “the availability of public funding”

dedmiston wrote:
It seems like the fan base for EVs has become nearly cult-like, but what about the human rights abuses? What about all the adults and children forced into slavery by the Chinese owners of the cobalt mines in the Congo?

We're supposed to believe that it's all unicorns and rainbows, but purchasing an EV is literally supporting slavery. Is everyone OK with this?

If you're on the fence and considering buying an EV, check out Cobalt Red: How the Blood of the Congo Powers Our Lives and/or listen to Joe Rogan's recent interview with Siddharth Kara.

This isn't some abstract concept. It's forced child labor and adult slavery, practices our so-called advanced societies have sworn to stomp out. But instead we let the green movement propel us into committing to a technology that we know deep inside ourselves is wrong. There are no unicorns. And there aren't any rainbows for the slaves in the cobalt mines.

The smugness of the electric vehicle owners is based upon lies after lies. And we're all expected to buy into it without questioning anything.

Mr. & Mrs. Reisender: I've been reading your posts for years now and I consider you to be highly intelligent and somewhat thoughtful, but I was surprised by your response to a well thought-out challenge to EV technology last week:

Reisender wrote:
Unfortunately I am not knowledgeable in any of those areas so can’t really contribute an intelligent comment.

For someone who has researched the tech as much as you have, I can't believe that you haven't researched the counterpoints. This tells me that either your bias is preventing you from doing the research or you actually HAVE done the research and don't want to admit that there are many valid obstacles that still need to be overcome.

We treat the pros as if there are no cons. We pretend that it's a black and white issue, but it's full of nuances and consequences that we aren't allowing ourselves to discuss.

But there's no nuance to slavery. Nobody is sort of enslaved or kind of free. History won't be kind to our generation for pretending this is all OK. The hypocrisy is unacceptable.

(Disclaimer: Cobalt Red isn't available for a few more weeks. I've pre-ordered it, but I haven't read it. I've listened to the author's interview and read articles, but I haven't read his book. I assume the book only underscores his points though. Time will tell.)

nobody wants to hear about that. for the cult members it IS rainbows and unicorns. nobody wants to think about from what the electricity is generated just as long as the end user isn't using fossil fuels. nobody wants to think about food production, storage and transportion, either.

one of two things is true. either the country, indeed the world, will awaken from this drunken green nightmare and see what their blindness has done to our society and then actually plan a multi-year transition based on reality; OR, the country and western society will crumble.

i'll be 73 this year, not old but i'm almost actually glad I likely won't be around to see the end game either way. but my 33-yr old nephew and his wife will reap the world we are leaving them and I hope it will be option 1.

Nah. I like this thread thanks.

dedmiston wrote:

Reisender wrote:
Yah, child labour sucks. But one needs to zoom back a bit to get a better picture.

One of the prime uses of cobalt for the last 50 or 60 years has been the refining of gas and diesel. Nobody really cared about the mining practices of cobalt until it was utilized in EV batteries. Certainly it has been used in batteries in hand held devices for decades as well. Again, no one cared.

On the plus side, the two biggest manufacturers of EV’s are BYD and Tesla. Each produce more than half of the EV’s they make with zero cobalt as they use LFP batteries. Both Ford and Rivian are offering models next year with zero cobalt as well. Bottom line, the EV industry continues to us less cobalt in their batteries.

However, if one is against any form of cobalt use then park that ICE car and buy a Tesla RWD model Y or 3. You’ll feel better knowing no cobalt was used.

Wow. Just wow. I'm forming a new opinion of you.

You realize that the demand for EVs is causing these operations to expand, right? So more demand means more slavery, right?

But since we've evidently always had slavery, what's the harm? At least that's how I'm interpreting your post.

I get it though. It's hard for anyone to claw their way out of their bias. We all have a bias to one degree or another. Yours seems to be stronger than I thought though.

By the way, I take back the "thoughtful" comment I made before. I still believe that you're extremely intelligent, but thoughtful people don't rationalize slavery.

Agreed. But you are also okay with it or you wouldn’t be driving an ice. Again, if it’s bothering you that much (and it obviously is) go buy an EV that doesn’t use cobalt and park your ice vehicle that is.

Anyway, feel free to open a new topic discussing your concern with cobalt use in the petroleum industry, medical field and EV industry. This thread is about charging facilities at Flying J and Pilot that may benefit RVers.

Cheers.

Reisender wrote:
Yah, child labour sucks. But one needs to zoom back a bit to get a better picture.

One of the prime uses of cobalt for the last 50 or 60 years has been the refining of gas and diesel. Nobody really cared about the mining practices of cobalt until it was utilized in EV batteries. Certainly it has been used in batteries in hand held devices for decades as well. Again, no one cared.

On the plus side, the two biggest manufacturers of EV’s are BYD and Tesla. Each produce more than half of the EV’s they make with zero cobalt as they use LFP batteries. Both Ford and Rivian are offering models next year with zero cobalt as well. Bottom line, the EV industry continues to us less cobalt in their batteries.

However, if one is against any form of cobalt use then park that ICE car and buy a Tesla RWD model Y or 3. You’ll feel better knowing no cobalt was used.

Wow. Just wow. I'm forming a new opinion of you.

You realize that the demand for EVs is causing these operations to expand, right? So more demand means more slavery, right?

But since we've evidently always had slavery, what's the harm? At least that's how I'm interpreting your post.

I get it though. It's hard for anyone to claw their way out of their bias. We all have a bias to one degree or another. Yours seems to be stronger than I thought though.

By the way, I take back the "thoughtful" comment I made before. I still believe that you're extremely intelligent, but thoughtful people don't rationalize slavery.

Yah, child labour sucks. But one needs to zoom back a bit to get a better picture.

One of the prime uses of cobalt for the last 50 or 60 years has been the refining of gas and diesel. Nobody really cared about the mining practices of cobalt until it was utilized in EV batteries. Certainly it has been used in batteries in hand held devices for decades as well. Again, no one cared.

On the plus side, the two biggest manufacturers of EV’s are BYD and Tesla. Each produce more than half of the EV’s they make with zero cobalt as they use LFP batteries. Both Ford and Rivian are offering models next year with zero cobalt as well. Bottom line, the EV industry continues to us less cobalt in their batteries.

However, if one is against any form of cobalt use then park that ICE car and buy a Tesla RWD model Y or 3. You’ll feel better knowing no cobalt was used.