German Resolution to ban ICE engines by 2030 passes

Phil, you have a lot of good questions of which I don't know the answers. As more and more homeowners convert to solar in this area of Southern California, it will have to be worked out to maintain the grid. We still will have a small monthly fee to stay connected to the grid which we will use at night (less than $10 a month).

Once batteries and inverters continue to improve, I hope to be totally grid-free if I live long enough. I wouldn't mind having a natural gas generator to use at night to charge the batteries if needed (if we had that type system).

We have something like 300+ days of sun so it made sense to use it as a power source.

I did not lease the solar panels, I paid all up front so that I could get the total 30% tax credit. They say 80% of the people lease their systems. If we leased for 20 yrs., the payment would have been $421 a month. My average utility bill is around $600 a month.

MM.

John & Angela wrote:

Mr.Mark wrote:
J and A, you will see across from you at the high school that they have solar parking. What a neat way to kill two birds with one stone!

MM.

Good morning Mr Mark. I am currently in BC Canada (just got back from California) Where abouts is this highschool?

Cheers.

John

Sorry J and A, I'm one street off. Behind your Resort is the Cathedral City high school on Dinah Shore. They have installed solar covered carports.

MM.

CampbellDaycruiser wrote:
Two points: electric cars are way more fun to drive than ICE cars since they are lighter and much more torquey at low rpms and the infrastructure in the EU is in much much better shape than in the US. The differences are visible as soon as you walk off the plane into the airport and continues on smooth highways, very very fast internet, excellent commuter and long distance rail systems, etc. Nothing at all like what you see here.......

Totally agree. On this side of the pond we tend to live in a 1950's world as far as transportation technology. A fast train over here is 70 mph. A slow train over there is 150. :).

However, although the EV infrastructure is lagging behind here, we also have the challenges of longer distances here. This is and will present a challenge to governments and industry but nothing that can't be overcome. The west coast already has reasonably good coverage and some east coast states have projects in the works.
My home province already has 1200 plus stations with thirty plus being high speed and 20 more funded and scheduled for this year. It all takes time. Our dealership is adding one in June as well as a couple more level 2 chargers. We use level 2 more than high speed but they are handy in a pinch.

John & Angela wrote:
It will be interesting to see how this affects availability of chassis for class C and B motorhomes. Still thirteen years away but right about then we will be downsizing to a small B class. Might be interesting.

This is the only English article I could find on the article. The German article is more encompassing. This follows Norways 2025 and Hollands 2026 plans for the same thing although the details are different.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/news/a31097/german-government-votes-to-ban-internal-combustion-engines-by-2030/

Big Woof. What's going to change? IMO, nothing. Why? Because if it doesn't ban petrol stations and ICE-based vehicles from being driven on the roads then it is toothless. Drivers and RVers, within and without Germany, will still drive their ICE vehicles in Germany and will need petrol stations. If the EU Commission does not agree with Germany then the only people affected will be German citizens buying new vehicles and Germany-based automobile MFGs. The Germany-based automobile MFGs will still make ICE vehicles - for export only.

MM.

Thanks much for your feedback!

We don't have electrical solar at our residence. Our electrical bills average between $300-$500 per month, due mostly because we have switched over time to a high efficiency heating/air conditioning heat pump, propane fireplace and kitchen range, and solar pool water heating.

We won't be going to rooftop electrical solar we buy or lease because we don't plan on living live here enough more years. The type of local electrical solar we would consider is leasing some of our acerage to a company for installation of a small solar farm so that they could feed the power from it into the PG&E's grid, with them making their own financial arrangemets with PG&E. This arrangement would be at no initial or long-term cost to me, but require them to pay me an agreed upon monthly land use leasing fee ... that I would then use to offset whatever my PG&E bill was each month.

gotsmart wrote:

John & Angela wrote:
It will be interesting to see how this affects availability of chassis for class C and B motorhomes. Still thirteen years away but right about then we will be downsizing to a small B class. Might be interesting.

This is the only English article I could find on the article. The German article is more encompassing. This follows Norways 2025 and Hollands 2026 plans for the same thing although the details are different.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/news/a31097/german-government-votes-to-ban-internal-combustion-engines-by-2030/

Big Woof. What's going to change? IMO, nothing. Why? Because if it doesn't ban petrol stations and ICE-based vehicles from being driven on the roads then it is toothless. Drivers and RVers, within and without Germany, will still drive their ICE vehicles in Germany and will need petrol stations. If the EU Commission does not agree with Germany then the only people affected will be German citizens buying new vehicles and Germany-based automobile MFGs. The Germany-based automobile MFGs will still make ICE vehicles - for export only.

I tend to agree. I think there will be an export market for ICE vehicles for a while yet. Especially in developing countries where the charging infrastructure will take a while to develop. As well it's hard to carry a can of electricity so those who like to get off the beaten track. Ice engines will be well suited to this for a while to come.

I think there will be a lot less gas stations though in 12 years if EV sales continue to grow the way they have been. Simple math would suggest that if half the vehicles on the road don't use gas then many won't be able to justify staying open. The same will happen with auto parts stores, oil change places and repair shops. EV's don't have many moving parts. Our maintenance bill consists of filling the washer fluid once per year.

I'm pretty sure the Power companies hate having to pay customers for excess solar. I know around where I live Eversource is fighting tooth and nail to change the laws so they will not have to.

One of the issues is that some of these systems have been causing is the voltage monitors that only allow power to go back onto the grid if it is 5 volts over the system voltage. So if you put a volt meter line to line at your meter you normally see 120/240 volts. Your solar converter would have to raise the voltage to 122/245 volts to push back into the grid. As more and more people get panels the voltages go higher and higher to push back onto the grid. So power companies are seeing unpredictable grid voltages in some neighborhoods causing the solar customers to loose $$$. It is not uncommon to see 250 volts line to neutral on some sunny days. The power companies complain it is causing damage to the grid...and costing to much to place voltage regulators in every neighborhood to control the higher voltages caused by the solar customers. This will be the justification these companies use to end the payback program.
My 2 cents.

snowcrustracer wrote:
I'm pretty sure the Power companies hate having to pay customers for excess solar. I know around where I live Eversource is fighting tooth and nail to change the laws so they will not have to.

One of the issues is that some of these systems have been causing is the voltage monitors that only allow power to go back onto the grid if it is 5 volts over the system voltage. So if you put a volt meter line to line at your meter you normally see 120/240 volts. Your solar converter would have to raise the voltage to 122/245 volts to push back into the grid. As more and more people get panels the voltages go higher and higher to push back onto the grid. So power companies are seeing unpredictable grid voltages in some neighborhoods causing the solar customers to loose $$$. It is not uncommon to see 250 volts line to neutral on some sunny days. The power companies complain it is causing damage to the grid...and costing to much to place voltage regulators in every neighborhood to control the higher voltages caused by the solar customers. This will be the justification these companies use to end the payback program.
My 2 cents.

Excellent information!

You made part of the points in my post above as they relate to problems on the horizon for rooftop solar merely backfeeding an existing wired grid.

IMHO, the ultimate end user approach is to continue using the wired grid where it already exists and makes sense to extend for new construction ... but eventually feed it completely from less expensive and far less, or zero, polluting renewabe energy sources.

gotsmart wrote:

John & Angela wrote:
It will be interesting to see how this affects availability of chassis for class C and B motorhomes. Still thirteen years away but right about then we will be downsizing to a small B class. Might be interesting.

This is the only English article I could find on the article. The German article is more encompassing. This follows Norways 2025 and Hollands 2026 plans for the same thing although the details are different.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/news/a31097/german-government-votes-to-ban-internal-combustion-engines-by-2030/

Big Woof. What's going to change? IMO, nothing. Why? Because if it doesn't ban petrol stations and ICE-based vehicles from being driven on the roads then it is toothless. Drivers and RVers, within and without Germany, will still drive their ICE vehicles in Germany and will need petrol stations. If the EU Commission does not agree with Germany then the only people affected will be German citizens buying new vehicles and Germany-based automobile MFGs. The Germany-based automobile MFGs will still make ICE vehicles - for export only.

If you ban the sale of new ICE chassis, in 10 years the number on the road will begin to drop off pretty quickly. How many people will want to buy a Class A or C that's 10 years used just for the nostalgia of having a smelly ICE? I'm sure the diehards will keep rebuilding their vehicles as long as they can but eventually the RV will fall apart, not the chassis, forcing them to buy new.

pnichols wrote:

snowcrustracer wrote:
I'm pretty sure the Power companies hate having to pay customers for excess solar. I know around where I live Eversource is fighting tooth and nail to change the laws so they will not have to.

One of the issues is that some of these systems have been causing is the voltage monitors that only allow power to go back onto the grid if it is 5 volts over the system voltage. So if you put a volt meter line to line at your meter you normally see 120/240 volts. Your solar converter would have to raise the voltage to 122/245 volts to push back into the grid. As more and more people get panels the voltages go higher and higher to push back onto the grid. So power companies are seeing unpredictable grid voltages in some neighborhoods causing the solar customers to loose $$$. It is not uncommon to see 250 volts line to neutral on some sunny days. The power companies complain it is causing damage to the grid...and costing to much to place voltage regulators in every neighborhood to control the higher voltages caused by the solar customers. This will be the justification these companies use to end the payback program.
My 2 cents.

Excellent information!

You made part of the points in my post above as they relate to problems on the horizon for rooftop solar merely backfeeding an existing wired grid.

IMHO, the ultimate end user approach is to continue using the wired grid where it already exists and makes sense to extend for new construction ... but eventually feed it completely from less expensive and far less, or zero, polluting renewabe energy sources.

This problem has popped up in various locations where local solar is feeding the grid. One approach still in development is micro grids, the equivalent of town or county grids. This obviously comes with its own challenges as well but it will be interesting to see how this affects the grip of larger corporation control of the grid. Eg, town and county owned utilities.

I think the other game changer for the home and private building based solar set ups is the advent of the TESLA solar wall and other products like it. Eg. Now the individual has viable and affordable storage for their solar arrays. No need to connect to the grid. This is expected to have very fast growth, to the point of straining battery building capacity for the electric car industry. They quite literally use the same cells that TESLA uses for ALL their battery packs. The gigs factory and Giga factory #2 (possibly in Germany or Norway) quite literally can't keep up with demand. TESLA forecasts production of 500,000 cars next year and every one is pretty much pre-sold. That is a lot of batteries and that's before any TESLA Walls are sold. I suspect they will be hiring :).