Have You Tested the Class As or Cs built with Hybrid Motors?

I thought you would never bet. :R I thought you would back up. I was correct.

Where did I ever bet against technology? Quote me. Oh, that's right, I didn't!

I have an 85 years old car with 100 YO IC technology that will kill any "factory production electric car" on the road today in a 1/4 mile drag race. And my car is just a street rod that I can drive around on the street all day long if I want. And drag racing is Tesla's forte. So where are you facts now? You want to talk road race? Ok, Tesla can't even finish one lap at Nurburgring under full power.

As far is your bet. What's "eventually." 5 years? 10 years? 50 years?
I will say "in my lifetime" that won't happen. So good luck in collecting your bet. :B



So instead of trying to put words in my mouth let me spell it out for you:
To be a success, LI electric cars have to be viable financially. They are not right now. Can you buy a 125K Tesla and save on gas? Sure.........only problem is it will cost you around 125K. Oh, they make a cheaper 3? Oh ya, they do don't they. Bummer you can buy a comparable Toyota or Ford for much, much less and have a very reliable car and have all that money left over for gasoline.

LI batteries don't last forever. In fact my buddy just replaced his in his Toyota for 5 grand. The Tesla S reportedly costs 40 to 50 grand to replace. I can put 10 to 15 engines in my car for that. Does that sound financially viable right now? Ya, me either.

Now, are all EV ideas bad? No, not at all. For instance "if" someone can get the cost of LI batteries down to a reasonable cost something like a city EV garbage truck would be a great idea. Would an over the road big rig be a good idea? No, that's silly right now with cost and range being what it is with LI.

I kinda look at it like how soon a baby walks. If it walks at 2 years or 2 years and 4 months. At graduation you won’t care or remember. If Elon is 4 months late no one is going to care when they pick up there keys. :).

We’ll wait with ours until there have been a couple of software revisions. :). I kinda want to upgrade in spring of 2020 but Angela wants to wait until 2021. Sigh.....I hate it when she is sensible.

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

4x4van wrote:
Amazing that some people refuse to acknowledge even the possibility of any technology that is more advanced than what they are currently using. Was there always gas stations on every corner in every city? OMG, then how did the automobile ever become viable? Was there always an electric grid in the US? OMG, then why did anyone ever even attempt to invent electric light bulbs, appliances, etc? Was there always macro cell towers and now microcell towers throughout the US? OMG, then why would anyone ever try to develop cell phones? Did campgrounds always have 50A pedestals? OMG, then why would any RV manufacturer start building 50A coaches?

30 years ago, who thought that rooftop residential solar would be viable? I work for a relatively small SoCal municipal electric utility, and we are permitting the installation of 50 residential solar installations every month. Are they all based on unsubstantiated claims? Or has the technology continued to improve year after year, making off-grid living not only possible but increasingly viable and affordable? Used to be that electric storage was the achilles heel of solar (no sun, no power); with Tesla's Powerwall storage units, that is no longer the case. But I guess that's also "unsubstantiated" claims, right? Oh wait, I can buy those right now...

Not every trucking company is a long haul provider...there are plenty of short haul companies out there as well. Not every RVer is a fulltimer driving 500+ miles at a pop; some of us are weekend warriors who stay within 200 miles of home. Yes, Turtle, whether you want to admit it or not, the viability of EVs in the trucking industry (and eventually the RV industry as well) IS real. Toyota is also working on a similar truck. And remember Workhorse? That's all they do now; EVs. With performance possibilities that will blow the doors off of any internal combustion vehicle out there, sticking your head in the sand won't stop them from coming. We are all seeing more and more plug-in electric and hybrid cars on the road as well as more and more EV charging stations; there are 22 being installed on the top floor of the parking structure within sight of my office window as I write this. Is the truck Tesla introduced going to be the final version that we start seeing on the roads? Unlikely; but it IS a piece of the ongoing advances. Progress stops for no one; not even turtles.

Since you mentioned me by name, I'll play.

Musk has shown no viability of anything. The only thing he did was roll some truck thing out on a stage and spouted off a bunch of useless unsubstantiated figures. If that's all it takes for you to believe a guy then YOU need to take up my bet challenge of the figures Musk said he was going to produce in the month of December. Remember; Musk stated time and time again he would produce 20K 3 cars in 12/17. If you believe the guy so much and have faith in him, lets bet. As we said in the old days of street racing, put up or shut up.

"With performance possibilities that will blow the doors off of any internal combustion vehicle out there." When is that going to happen?
When is there going to be a "possibility" of my phone battery lasting more than a day or two? When is there going to be a possibility of my smart watch lasting more than a day or two?

It comes down to this: You either believe Musk or not. I don't; you do. If you have so much faith in what he can do and what he says he will do, lets bet. After all, Musk say's he will do this. So are we on; or are you going to start backing up and making excuses? My money will be on the latter.

A bet? Why? I'm betting on technology, you're betting against it; you've already lost. You've ignored my points about gas stations, cell towers, electric lights/appliances, 50A RVs, Powerwalls... My current cell phone has 3X the computing power, 1/2 the thickness, and 2X the battery life of my last phone. I'd say that's a pretty good increase in just a couple of years.

But you're still missing the point. I'm not saying that I believe Musk, or even his specific numbers...what I believe in is the technology. Production EVs on the road today are significantly better than those produced just 10 years ago; range, charging speed, dependability...google "Hypercar" or Pike's Peak" to see what electric technology is doing in the performance arena. And the instant torque of electric motors does indeed blow away every internal combustion engine ever produced. That's already fact, not fiction.

You can cover your eyes and say "nyah, nyah, nyah" all you want, pointing to one guy that you don't like, and trying to make irrelevant side bets. But Musk is not the subject here, nor are his production numbers; the future propulsion of transportation is the subject. I simply believe that electric, eventually, WILL replace the internal combustion engine; you don't. And on that, I am more than happy to take that bet. You in?

The first non employee “invitations to configure your car” were sent out to reservation holders this morning at 8 o’clock. I believe they are informing of January deliveries. They seem to be producing spurts of around 500 vehicles and then halts. Rumour has it a couple of bottlenecks have been worked out and a couple more to go including one at the gigafactory. They were just issued another block of serial numbers taking them to 3800 (from around 2200 ish). Speculation by some is that they will be at 500 per week in December so if someone is thinking of taking Turtles bet....eeeek. :). I’still think the 20,000 per month number will be closer to end first quarter 2018.

This is the point where folks have to actually come up with the funds so at this point you will start to see those not financially prepared cancelling their reservations. If we order one we don’t want to see it till spring 2020 so we will wait with a reservation until we see how fast the line goes down.

4x4van wrote:
Amazing that some people refuse to acknowledge even the possibility of any technology that is more advanced than what they are currently using. Was there always gas stations on every corner in every city? OMG, then how did the automobile ever become viable? Was there always an electric grid in the US? OMG, then why did anyone ever even attempt to invent electric light bulbs, appliances, etc? Was there always macro cell towers and now microcell towers throughout the US? OMG, then why would anyone ever try to develop cell phones? Did campgrounds always have 50A pedestals? OMG, then why would any RV manufacturer start building 50A coaches?

30 years ago, who thought that rooftop residential solar would be viable? I work for a relatively small SoCal municipal electric utility, and we are permitting the installation of 50 residential solar installations every month. Are they all based on unsubstantiated claims? Or has the technology continued to improve year after year, making off-grid living not only possible but increasingly viable and affordable? Used to be that electric storage was the achilles heel of solar (no sun, no power); with Tesla's Powerwall storage units, that is no longer the case. But I guess that's also "unsubstantiated" claims, right? Oh wait, I can buy those right now...

Not every trucking company is a long haul provider...there are plenty of short haul companies out there as well. Not every RVer is a fulltimer driving 500+ miles at a pop; some of us are weekend warriors who stay within 200 miles of home. Yes, Turtle, whether you want to admit it or not, the viability of EVs in the trucking industry (and eventually the RV industry as well) IS real. Toyota is also working on a similar truck. And remember Workhorse? That's all they do now; EVs. With performance possibilities that will blow the doors off of any internal combustion vehicle out there, sticking your head in the sand won't stop them from coming. We are all seeing more and more plug-in electric and hybrid cars on the road as well as more and more EV charging stations; there are 22 being installed on the top floor of the parking structure within sight of my office window as I write this. Is the truck Tesla introduced going to be the final version that we start seeing on the roads? Unlikely; but it IS a piece of the ongoing advances. Progress stops for no one; not even turtles.

Since you mentioned me by name, I'll play.

Musk has shown no viability of anything. The only thing he did was roll some truck thing out on a stage and spouted off a bunch of useless unsubstantiated figures. If that's all it takes for you to believe a guy then YOU need to take up my bet challenge of the figures Musk said he was going to produce in the month of December. Remember; Musk stated time and time again he would produce 20K 3 cars in 12/17. If you believe the guy so much and have faith in him, lets bet. As we said in the old days of street racing, put up or shut up.

"With performance possibilities that will blow the doors off of any internal combustion vehicle out there." When is that going to happen?
When is there going to be a "possibility" of my phone battery lasting more than a day or two? When is there going to be a possibility of my smart watch lasting more than a day or two?

It comes down to this: You either believe Musk or not. I don't; you do. If you have so much faith in what he can do and what he says he will do, lets bet. After all, Musk say's he will do this. So are we on; or are you going to start backing up and making excuses? My money will be on the latter.

Amazing that some people refuse to acknowledge even the possibility of any technology that is more advanced than what they are currently using. Was there always gas stations on every corner in every city? OMG, then how did the automobile ever become viable? Was there always an electric grid in the US? OMG, then why did anyone ever even attempt to invent electric light bulbs, appliances, etc? Was there always macro cell towers and now microcell towers throughout the US? OMG, then why would anyone ever try to develop cell phones? Did campgrounds always have 50A pedestals? OMG, then why would any RV manufacturer start building 50A coaches?

30 years ago, who thought that rooftop residential solar would be viable? I work for a relatively small SoCal municipal electric utility, and we are permitting the installation of 50 residential solar installations every month. Are they all based on unsubstantiated claims? Or has the technology continued to improve year after year, making off-grid living not only possible but increasingly viable and affordable? Used to be that electric storage was the achilles heel of solar (no sun, no power); with Tesla's Powerwall storage units, that is no longer the case. But I guess that's also "unsubstantiated" claims, right? Oh wait, I can buy those right now...

Not every trucking company is a long haul provider...there are plenty of short haul companies out there as well. Not every RVer is a fulltimer driving 500+ miles at a pop; some of us are weekend warriors who stay within 200 miles of home. Yes, Turtle, whether you want to admit it or not, the viability of EVs in the trucking industry (and eventually the RV industry as well) IS real. Toyota is also working on a similar truck. And remember Workhorse? That's all they do now; EVs. With performance possibilities that will blow the doors off of any internal combustion vehicle out there, sticking your head in the sand won't stop them from coming. We are all seeing more and more plug-in electric and hybrid cars on the road as well as more and more EV charging stations; there are 22 being installed on the top floor of the parking structure within sight of my office window as I write this. Is the truck Tesla introduced going to be the final version that we start seeing on the roads? Unlikely; but it IS a piece of the ongoing advances. Progress stops for no one; not even turtles.

MrWizard wrote:
"have you tested?"

A simple Google search, would show, none exist for 'consumers' to test

Prototypes or design concepts, ate not out there at the dealer to be tested

Either incredibly naive , or a question intended to be controversial

Why you never went to an Auto Expo or RV expo where they had prototypes? or demos? Surely YOU are not that naive that you think EVERYTHING can be found on the internet. Google only goes so far.

"have you tested?"

A simple Google search, would show, none exist for 'consumers' to test

Prototypes or design concepts, ate not out there at the dealer to be tested

Either incredibly naive , or a question intended to be controversial

WEll said, John & Angela. I think many forget that these Iphones, EVs, and hybrids, are not the result of a overnight project. These products have been 8-10+ yrs in the making. I mean the Work on the Iphone 8 was already in progress before the Iphone 6 came out. Henry ford was bickering over EVs with Rockerfeller a 100 yrs ago, and Rockerfeller told Ford in so many words, "no one is going to stop my Gravy train." The rest is history. I tell my son all the time to get into nanotechnology or quantum computing, he'll thank me later. lol

afidel wrote:

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

4x4van wrote:
Tesla has now shown the viabiliy of an all electric heavy truck.

What? When did he do that? I must have missed that one? :h

He roll out and showed a shiny truck thing on stage. He rattled off some unsubstantiated specs and everybody ewwwed and awwwwwed and chanted we believe, we believe 3 times. :R

For all we know it could have had 50 D type Dura Cell batteries powering the thing? Maybe 33 hamsters on a wheel?

When is the 3rd party test going to happen?

The beancounters at Walmart were impressed enough with the pre-production units to preorder 15 of them for testing. It's like wind power, everyone laughed about it being a greenie thing until it got cheaper than coal and natural gas and then the big money started rolling with it.

For most of the trucking companies there was nothing new to see at the roll out. Tesla has been working with trucking consultants for over two years on what the truck would have to do as far as range weights, producing power themselves at the depots etc. The reveal was nice to see for the rest of us but the industry execs have already had their test drives.

There is a whole new industry going to develop here. Depot rooftop solar installations are going to generate a whole new set of trades and skills. I noticed the local college already has a bunch of courses directed to this industry. Kinda cool.