Help with hitch / tongue weight

Terryallan wrote:

lbrjet wrote:
Weight in the back of your truck counts against payload, but it is not tongue weight. I know some hitch companies suggest weight behind the rear axle should be considered as TW when sizing your WDH. I think that is beans as there is no need to distribute any of that weight. This thinking is a recent phenomena and I have no idea how they came up with it, other than to maybe sell you a larger hitch for more money. A 900 lb dry TW will turn into 1100 lbs so you are on the edge but still within spec. OK? It's up to you.

This is the correct answer. The load in the back of the truck, including the hitch itself is NOT tongue weight. It is part of the payload / GVWR of the truck.
Tongue weight. Is the actual weight of the trailer tongue. Determined mostly by where you load the weight INSIDE the trailer.

Thing is. You have to leave enough payload to carry the tongue weight, because it too counts against the payload / GVWR of the truck. You also have to be sure your receiver is rated to carry the tongue weight of your trailer. Say your receiver can carry 950lb of tongue weight using a WDH. Your tongue weight cannot be more than 950lb.

And do remember. the truck's brakes are only designed to stop the GVWR of the truck. They are NOT designed to stop the GCVWR which is the truck, plus the trailer. In other words, They are not designed stop the GCVWR of the truck.

That view is IMO too simplistic and not really correct. My answer to this is in my post HERE. Ron in his last post agrees at least in concept with parts of my position. I do agree with his view as it applies to what to use as the percentage of TW to total trailer wt. to estimate overall trailer stability.

I do concede that my position regarding cargo aft of the TV rear axle is fairly complex and near impossible to accurately determine since what is important for receiver TW rating and sizing of WDH bars is the "weight" that would be applied at the point of the ball that would equal the same "lever moment" as this "additional" cargo wt. I would think somewhere this would be in the range of 25-75% of the actual cargo wt. added.

Larry

lbrjet wrote:
Weight in the back of your truck counts against payload, but it is not tongue weight. I know some hitch companies suggest weight behind the rear axle should be considered as TW when sizing your WDH. I think that is beans as there is no need to distribute any of that weight. This thinking is a recent phenomena and I have no idea how they came up with it, other than to maybe sell you a larger hitch for more money. A 900 lb dry TW will turn into 1100 lbs so you are on the edge but still within spec. OK? It's up to you.

This is the correct answer. The load in the back of the truck, including the hitch itself is NOT tongue weight. It is part of the payload / GVWR of the truck.
Tongue weight. Is the actual weight of the trailer tongue. Determined mostly by where you load the weight INSIDE the trailer.

Thing is. You have to leave enough payload to carry the tongue weight, because it too counts against the payload / GVWR of the truck. You also have to be sure your receiver is rated to carry the tongue weight of your trailer. Say your receiver can carry 950lb of tongue weight using a WDH. Your tongue weight cannot be more than 950lb.

And do remember. the truck's brakes are only designed to stop the GVWR of the truck. They are NOT designed to stop the GCVWR which is the truck, plus the trailer. In other words, They are not designed stop the GCVWR of the truck.

rhetthughes wrote:
Thank you all for the helpful advice. Sounds like I should work towards finding a camper that meets our needs with a tongue weight down in the 700 lb range to be safe.

Good thinking.

If dry tongue weight is giving you concerns, loaded weight could become a big issue.

Tongue weight is not a constant weight. It fluctuates with and during every trip. You won't necessarily load the same items, in the same amounts, and in the same locations, on every trip. During the trip, water, propane, and groceries get used up, and holding tanks get filled. All of this affects your tongue weight.

Holding tanks can have a significant impact. In my case, I have a galley tank that is in front of the trailer axles and a fresh tank that is behind the axles. During any given trip, my tongue weight can be anywhere between 975 and 1300 lbs. My advertised dry tongue weight was 888 lbs. I'm at my heaviest tongue weight with empty fresh tank, still have groceries on board, and galley tank is full. I have camped in places without a nearby dump station, and had to tow with that 1300 lbs on the tongue.

Take a look at the loading sticker on your drivers door post. You'll see a cargo carrying capacity (CCC) or payload number. That is the capacity the truck has to carry the weight of aftermarket accessories (bed covers, undercoating, bed liners, floor mats, etc), fuel, people, pets, cargo (in or on the truck), weight distributing hitch, and trailer tongue weight, combined.

If you add up your weights on fuel, accessories, people, pets, cargo, and WD hitch, then subtract the total from your payload number. The remaining capacity is the max available for trailer tongue weight. Dividing that number by .13 will give you a ball park for loaded trailer weight that is still within your specs. Here's a link that will help with that. Give yourself some wiggle room for unexpected guests or unplanned cargo, etc.

Thank you all for the helpful advice. Sounds like I should work towards finding a camper that meets our needs with a tongue weight down in the 700 lb range to be safe.

Weight in the back of your truck counts against payload, but it is not tongue weight. I know some hitch companies suggest weight behind the rear axle should be considered as TW when sizing your WDH. I think that is beans as there is no need to distribute any of that weight. This thinking is a recent phenomena and I have no idea how they came up with it, other than to maybe sell you a larger hitch for more money. A 900 lb dry TW will turn into 1100 lbs so you are on the edge but still within spec. OK? It's up to you.

harley-dave wrote:
You guys are not entirely correct. Tongue weight is just that. how much weight the tongue is putting on the hitch ball. Here. There are several sites around discussing this. Don't get this one confused with PIN weight which applies to 5th wheels which will include all that other weight in the back of the truck.

Dave

my post outlines exactly what you said, the weight the tongue is putting on the hitch ball.

FWIW, virtually ALL the weight of the propane tanks and battery(s) add directly to tongue weight since they are so far forward on the tongue. Tongue weight was measured both with a sherline scale and a weigh station scale.

You guys are not entirely correct. Tongue weight is just that. how much weight the tongue is putting on the hitch ball. Here. There are several sites around discussing this. Don't get this one confused with PIN weight which applies to 5th wheels which will include all that other weight in the back of the truck.

Dave

people, fuel, stuff in rear of truck, propane tanks, battery(s) forward storage of trailer is all tongue weight. some can be offset with storage in rear of trailer.. but not all.

20 pound propane tanks are 20 pounds of propane and 15 pounds of tank.= 35 pounds each
30 pound propane tanks are 30 pounds of propane and 25 pounds of tank.= 55 pounds each.

you seem to be limited by the 1100 pound limit.

well, first. if the claimed empty tongue weight is 900 lbs, you'll likely be near 1200-1400 or more lbs once your loaded up.
First empty tongue weight usually assumes NO propane in the tanks, NO batteries.
figure 60lbs added tongue weight for each battery, 30 lbs extra tongue weight for each 7.5 gallon propane tank. as starters.

As an example, my measured tongue weight when my trailer came from the factory was near 750lbs, right what the spec was. Actual tongue weight with full water tanks and the trailer ready to go. 1450lbs! empty the water tanks, still 1200 lbs.

Now I do have 4 batteries on the tongue, so you could subtract another 120lbs with only two batteries, but even then my "800" lb tongue weight would still be near 1100 lbs w/o any water and near 1300 with water.