I'm a retired salesman

monkey44 wrote:
JALLEN4: Good answer, from a knowledgeable source. But it's weakness is in the fact that a dealer will never do those calculations (arrive at a fair price) and then share that price with the buyer - will never just tell the buyer this is my price, take it or leave it. They keep trying to get the buyer up over that price until the sale closes or fails.

And I'll never believe for one second when a salesman shows me the 'dealers invoice' and says I'll sell it for $100, or $250 over invoice that the 'invoice price' he shows me is accurate for dealers cost - which is the implication. No auto dealer in the world can stay in business making a $100, or $250 on a sale, and no salesman can make a living if his commission comes out of that. So, those sales gimmicks make no sense - but a salesman will make that very statement.

But I'm wondering where in your sales model it says it's okay for you to maximize your return on each sale by misrepresenting the vehicle you sell?

Not saying you did it, I'm saying it happens on auto and RV lots more than anyone would like to admit. I'm not going to run down my experiences, it would take too long and prove nothing, some good, some bad. But I can tell you that some of the salesman I've come across in my vehicle buying life have no qualms about telling direct lies, and lies by omission in order to make a sale. And it gives a bad name to every vehicle sales force anywhere, no matter the ethics of a specific dealer.

The very reasons you state here make it probable that a price is always going to set for the maximum profit for a dealer every time.

The problems we see is the expectation somewhere in our brains that a salesman should not lie and a customer should not lie. But everyone seems to think it's okay for both to lie in vehicle sales - for some reason, even the most moral and ethical individuals in all other areas of life believe it does not apply in the business of vehicle sales.

I believe it began when used car dealers took in car and 'retrofit' each one it could and sell it with the comfort of some kind of warranty -- or simply salvaged any car it couldn't refit.

Nowadays, a dealer takes in a vehicle and does nothing to it unless a buyer, requests it after an inspection. So the "as is" and "buyer beware" traditions emerged. And that model always takes advantage of the buyer, never the seller. Either the buyer gets a good vehicle, or he doesn't - that's the only two options. The dealer always gets his price, so the only person that can ever lose is the buyer.

Unfortunately, the problems with the sales model in vehicles allows a buyer to become a victim. And, that's why the vehicle sales force always gets a bad name, because the buyer can never victimize the seller, but the seller can and often does victimize the buyer.

So, that fact makes every buyer afraid s/he will be that victim ... and the fact is, too many auto salesmen do lie, or omit - and that hurts all the ones that don't.

Reputation is everything in vehicle sales - often the only thing that makes a dealer successful.

Anybody who thinks the "victim" can never be the dealer obviously has never been involved in the retail vehicle business. I could write an entertaining book on just that scenario.

People lie! Neither salesmen nor customers have a monopoly on that concept. I have said for years though that I heard more lies in an average day than all my people told in a month.

If you really want to see some fancy dealings, sit in and watch two amateurs conduct a private sale. Few regulations, no warranty, usually no contract, and no way to hold either accountable!