K & N filters

Gee I didn't realize boat motors didn't use an air filter. I think I'll take the filter off my diesel. Good enough for boat motors ought to be good enough for me. Save a ton of money.
Instead of an expensive K&N maybe I could just poke larger filters with a pencil, in the filters, on the cars too. Bet I get a lot longer use out of them and I'll save a ton of money on replacing the filter so often.
I wonder if Ford know they can save a lot in production cost by not installing filters or their old oil bath filters. Just let the air flow over and settle in the oil.

What's really funny here is that outboard boat motors for years have never had a air filter but yet they can still run good after years of service and the boat motor makers have no problems with warranties, Mercury even offers 5 year warranty and no air filter.

So with that said how can K&N do so much damage as many here claim but a boat motor with no air filter be fine year after year, and please don't say no dust on lakes, here in Nevada there is dust everywhere, even at Lake Mead..

:C

dodge guy wrote:

Me Again wrote:

dodge guy wrote:
I like how people dismiss the fact that those of that use them do not have problems, yet they insist that they are no good because a very expensive airflow machine says they are no good! I'm using real world testing as are many of us! I guess we just don't know any better! Sorry, but i'm taking what i know from my own testing (actual use) and it shows it works great with no issues!

Some people just refuse to change or believe real world testing!

And what lab testing are you doing to prove that it is not causing increased engine wear problems? How do you know that your cylinder walls, rings, bearings, cam lobes, engine oiled injection pump etc, are not wearing out faster than an engine with the OEM filter.

You turn the key and it is still starting? Or do you have a documented history of oil samples that started before the use of the K&N filter that shows the silica levels did not increase, and other readings that indicate wear are not elevated. If so please post them.

Or is it that some people in our throw away society just are not as concerned about maintaining things correctly anymore. Let the next guy worry about it. So it burns a little oil! No big deal! I will go buy a new 65K truck!

Chris

I don`t buy brand new cars! we had our 97 Voyager for 200k miles with no engine issues (rust). our 95 Explorer was sold at 160k miles, again no issues. had a 97 conv. van with 130k when I traded it for the X. everything I buy is used. never paid any more than 20k for a car. so now tell me how bad the K&N is!

I`m done arguing with people that have never used a product they are slamming!

I have used one in my Dodge like I said until Dodge withdrew their endorsement. And my boat has two Cummins engine with them. Do you take the time to read what others post?

Chris

Me Again wrote:

dodge guy wrote:
I like how people dismiss the fact that those of that use them do not have problems, yet they insist that they are no good because a very expensive airflow machine says they are no good! I'm using real world testing as are many of us! I guess we just don't know any better! Sorry, but i'm taking what i know from my own testing (actual use) and it shows it works great with no issues!

Some people just refuse to change or believe real world testing!

And what lab testing are you doing to prove that it is not causing increased engine wear problems? How do you know that your cylinder walls, rings, bearings, cam lobes, engine oiled injection pump etc, are not wearing out faster than an engine with the OEM filter.

You turn the key and it is still starting? Or do you have a documented history of oil samples that started before the use of the K&N filter that shows the silica levels did not increase, and other readings that indicate wear are not elevated. If so please post them.

Or is it that some people in our throw away society just are not as concerned about maintaining things correctly anymore. Let the next guy worry about it. So it burns a little oil! No big deal! I will go buy a new 65K truck!

Chris

I don`t buy brand new cars! we had our 97 Voyager for 200k miles with no engine issues (rust). our 95 Explorer was sold at 160k miles, again no issues. had a 97 conv. van with 130k when I traded it for the X. everything I buy is used. never paid any more than 20k for a car. so now tell me how bad the K&N is!

I`m done arguing with people that have never used a product they are slamming!

BTW, the tear down I did on an engine (2000 Mitsu Eclipse 4 cylinder) showed "normal" wear for the mileage (100k) that was using a K&N air filter. Not statistically significant, but one real world data point.

Turtle n Peeps wrote:
Ok, I'll try one more time to explain friction, scoring and what high silicon rates can do to the inside of an engine.

No need, I completely understand all that. No need to be condescending either. I have a full and complete understanding of how an ICE works. What I do question is getting high amounts of silicon in an engine in city driving. Air flow testing of air filters doesn't test real world events. Oil analysis after driving in real world conditions is the only way to properly test. Unless it is shown that a significant amount of harmful material collects in the oil of an engine with one air filter used over another everything is just speculation. A SWAG if you will. But, that is more involved that a simple dirt flow test.

Additionally, I am not stating that allowing a higher rate of passed "dirt" won't cause engine damage. However, unless someone tests it all you have is theory. And theory doesn't always match reality.

Off road driving is a completely different environment, much as on the water is a completely different environment.

So, unless you have links to someone doing engine analysis after using different air filters under "normal" (non-off road) conditions then we don't have a real answer.

However, feel free to continue to treat me like a child that needs to have all this explained instead.

okhmbldr wrote:
The K&N filters will work just fine...IF...you also attach magnets to your fuel line. The science is correct, don't doubt me!

Don't forget the Slick50!

dodge guy wrote:
I like how people dismiss the fact that those of that use them do not have problems, yet they insist that they are no good because a very expensive airflow machine says they are no good! I'm using real world testing as are many of us! I guess we just don't know any better! Sorry, but i'm taking what i know from my own testing (actual use) and it shows it works great with no issues!

Some people just refuse to change or believe real world testing!

And what lab testing are you doing to prove that it is not causing increased engine wear problems? How do you know that your cylinder walls, rings, bearings, cam lobes, engine oiled injection pump etc, are not wearing out faster than an engine with the OEM filter.

You turn the key and it is still starting? Or do you have a documented history of oil samples that started before the use of the K&N filter that shows the silica levels did not increase, and other readings that indicate wear are not elevated. If so please post them.

Or is it that some people in our throw away society just are not as concerned about maintaining things correctly anymore. Let the next guy worry about it. So it burns a little oil! No big deal! I will go buy a new 65K truck!

Chris

I like how people dismiss the fact that those of that use them do not have problems, yet they insist that they are no good because a very expensive airflow machine says they are no good! I'm using real world testing as are many of us! I guess we just don't know any better! Sorry, but i'm taking what i know from my own testing (actual use) and it shows it works great with no issues!

Some people just refuse to change or believe real world testing!

Excuse me. I don't want to be a negative or downer on this.
I ran K&N on several engines. When it came to Mass Air Flow and others t was easier to see but you could see it all of them, dusting. Especially not a good thing on blow or turbo motors where huge amounts, of air, are ingested.
How K&N flows more air is bigger holes in the media. The oil attracts dust and makes the filter cleanable but it still has big old holes for air to pass through.
What I did on most carbeurated engines was a big old 14 in air cleaner, with two huge Olds Toranado ,air filters. The paper elements got wet when the air was dam and didn't last as long but it made for one great bi air filter with smaller holes than the K&N. They make them now out of a polymer or polymer paper now though.