I Will start off by saying that I heavily researched the type of RV I wanted and was dead set on a bumper pull travel trailer over a fifth wheel. I wasn't ready to buy my RV yet but had to go ahead and purchase a new vehicle that would be my tow vehicle. I opted for a 2018 F250, Crew Cab, 4WD, Platinum, diesel. The truck will tow any travel trailer (or fifth wheel for that matter) that I am considering. The problem (of course) is payload capacity, something I knew nothing about at the time of my truck purchase two months ago. I was told at the Ford dealer, and every single RV dealer I visited (and I visited a lot of them), that the F250 I was going to buy could tow "everything on the lot except a few of the biggest fifth wheels." Due to all the options on my truck (which is very nice I must say), and the fact that it is a 3/4 ton, my payload capacity ain't great.Now, I've started question whether I would prefer a fifth wheel. it would not exceed 35' in total length with advertised hitch weight ranging from 1600# to 2300# (I realize a loaded trailer may increase these numbers).So here are the truck's numbers:GVWR: 10,000Front GAWR: 5200Rear GAWR: 6340Payload Capacity: 2145So the questions are:A fifth wheel with a hitch weight of 1600# will exceed my payload capacity once its and the truck is loaded with my family and junk.1. It appears the negative effects of exceeding the payload capacity of the tow vehicle are: possible legalities, wear and tear, and safety. Any others?2. What ways exist to counteract the negative effect of the wear and tear and safety? Air bags, more suspension, etc? I realize the trucks official payload cannot be increased but are there ways to safely handle the higher payload safely.3. Do these solutions truly counteract the negatives of my payload limitations?

You have your GVWR, now you need to know exactly how much you weigh loaded reafy to travel. Subtract one from the other. Thats your real world payload. Once you subtract 150 to 250 pounds for hitch you will be surprised how little you have left over for pin weight. Fifth wheel pin weigh%t will generally be about 20% of the fivers LOADED ready to travel weight.Once you know those numbers you can then safely make a good judgement decision. You will get lots of " no problem, tow a 40 foot fiver" comments soon. Im not going to tell you yea or nay. Do the math.

You can reduce squatting with air bags. I've seen 250s pulling things that dwarf them, but that doesn't make it safe. I guess it depends on how MUCH towing you're going to be doing. You can get away with overloading for a time.

BigSpenda864 wrote:I Will start off by saying that I heavily researched the type of RV I wanted and was dead set on a bumper pull travel trailer over a fifth wheel. I wasn't ready to buy my RV yet but had to go ahead and purchase a new vehicle that would be my tow vehicle. I opted for a 2018 F250, Crew Cab, 4WD, Platinum, diesel. The truck will tow any travel trailer (or fifth wheel for that matter) that I am considering. The problem (of course) is payload capacity, something I knew nothing about at the time of my truck purchase two months ago. I was told at the Ford dealer, and every single RV dealer I visited (and I visited a lot of them), that the F250 I was going to buy could tow "everything on the lot except a few of the biggest fifth wheels." Due to all the options on my truck (which is very nice I must say), and the fact that it is a 3/4 ton, my payload capacity ain't great.Now, I've started question whether I would prefer a fifth wheel. it would not exceed 35' in total length with advertised hitch weight ranging from 1600# to 2300# (I realize a loaded trailer may increase these numbers).So here are the truck's numbers:GVWR: 10,000Front GAWR: 5200Rear GAWR: 6340Payload Capacity: 2145 This is as it left the factory and unless you plan to tow as it without any additional loading..and you weigh 150lbs (that is the stand used for any person in the vehicle)...this capacity number will be wrongBest to load up as you would ready to go RV'ing and weigh it axle by axle.Then do the simple math to find out what is left on your GVWR and especially RGAWRMost of the stuff recommended/advised/etc will change the orientation (how it sits statically and dynamically, but the ratings will be the same...unless you pay a PE/ME to certify a new rating...but that would cost more than just going out and buy a higher class TVSo the questions are:A fifth wheel with a hitch weight of 1600# will exceed my payload capacity once its and the truck is loaded with my family and junk.1. It appears the negative effects of exceeding the payload capacity of the tow vehicle are: possible legalities, wear and tear, and safety. Any others?In my city...saw both the city PD and Highway Patrol making all vehicles stop on their portable scales. Didn't stop and turn around, as they might have made me enter that marked off laneCousin used to be a Sargent in Calif Highway Patrol and used to stop any setup that 'looked' over, but he was made to stop doing that after too many letters to management. He confirmed with legal that he was within the law, but too much politics on that one...he finally quit after one of his officers got his knees taken out walking between cars after they hit each other...back then bumpers had shock absorbers that got stuck compressed and let go later and the dead infant he had to pull out from underneath the dashSaying non-commercial will/might soon have to toe the OEM/DOT/etc ratings...as eyeballed them weighing non-commercial in my city last monthOf course safety...OEM components are designed to manhandle the setup during a Mr Murphy meeting...while at those OEM ratings limits. Going over will have the setup less able to manhandle that setup2. What ways exist to counteract the negative effect of the wear and tear and safety? Air bags, more suspension, etc? I realize the trucks official payload cannot be increased but are there ways to safely handle the higher payload safely.Get a bigger or next class TV. It will be able to manhandle more and better during that Mr Murphy meetingSure in a way, but not the ratings. Take my vehicles. They all have highest performance braking components and my own special tune. My K3500 Suburban has out stopped a BMW 5 series where he bumped into my rear bumper. Didn't know he was 'trying' out drag me while out and about enjoying some new mods and retune of stuff. Running WOT from stop light to stop light...but my K3500 is still an 8,600 GVWR and 425 FGAWR and 6,000 RGAWR.Tongue'n cheek refer to my Sub as a K3500...knowing GM never offered one. Ordered the F60 option to get 1 ton front springs. AAM rates my axle at 10,000 GAWR, but GM installed brakes/springs/etc lists it at 6,000 GAWR. Note that there is only one person responsible for the setup and that is the driver. Even you chose all of the stuff, the driver is responsible...and...no one here on this freebie forum has any skin in that3. Do these solutions truly counteract the negatives of my payload limitations?Laws of physics dictate all of that and another note...the TV is s whole system. Changing something (re-engineering) must take that whole system into account...where most only address a single to a few of the wholeFinally...all things designed/engineered is for the specification that addresses the worst case (AKA meeting Mr Murphy). All of the OEMs CYA themselves via their specifications and fine print on all ratings. When you re-engineer anything...know that and make sure that your re-engineering is ABOVE their spec and note that you now own the liablity of it all

Reconsider a travel trailer. Problem solved.

I tend to try to encourage people to be fairly true to ratings, but I wouldn't squawk at someone being 50-100 pounds over a 10k GVWR. That said, the number you are toying with are going to result in you being more like 500-1,000 pounds over! My short answer is no, I don't think there is a reasonable way to counteract that significant an overage.Go back to the TT idea - you can get plenty of trailer and stay well within your ratings. We have 2,100 pounds of payload and we tow a 35' trailer, a family of 5 and a 100 pound dog - all while staying well within our ratings!

Payload Capacity and Towing Questions | Good Sam Community

Grit_dog
Navigator
Apr 13, 2018
4x4ord wrote:
In Alberta Canada very few dealers order in diesel F250's. I will never understand why Ford makes such a truck. Anyway because you already own it I think you should replace your F250 emblems with F350 emblems, add air bags, scribble out the GVWR numbers on your door sticker and pretend you have an F350. In your mind call your GVWR 13500 lbs, your truck won't know the difference and neither will your trailer or anybody else.

That's pretty much accurate, as tongue in cheek as you were attempting to be.....
Although I do agree with you seems western Canadia is mostly 1 tons and not many 3/4 tons. Bonus when used truck shopping for sure.
Grit_dog
Navigator
Apr 13, 2018
IdaD wrote:
I don't think I really have the energy to get into this again, so I'll just say OP's truck should be able to safely handle most if not almost all fifth wheels in the size range he's contemplating. Stay within that 6340 lb RAWR and you're golden, OP. Just be sure you're registered properly for the weight.

Lol. And at that, 6340lbs is ultra conservative. I'll see your 6340 and raise you a 7200 (just based on wheels.). Someone will have bigspenda trading up to a F450 before the thread dies...
thomas201
Explorer
Apr 13, 2018
Shop 1/2 ton towable 5th wheels. Loaded, even an extra truck spare tire, my pin on a 2011 Cougar, with a rear kitchen, is 1240#.
4x4ord
Explorer III
Apr 10, 2018
In Alberta Canada very few dealers order in diesel F250's. I will never understand why Ford makes such a truck. Anyway because you already own it I think you should replace your F250 emblems with F350 emblems, add air bags, scribble out the GVWR numbers on your door sticker and pretend you have an F350. In your mind call your GVWR 13500 lbs, your truck won't know the difference and neither will your trailer or anybody else.
silverfz
Explorer
Apr 09, 2018
Every year the trailer are getting lighter and smaller trailers are getting all the option upgrades.
by the time you buy you can probabily find all the feature is a lighter package.
gmw_photos
Explorer
Apr 06, 2018
IdaD wrote:
I don't think I really have the energy to get into this again, so I'll just say OP's truck should be able to safely handle most if not almost all fifth wheels in the size range he's contemplating. Stay within that 6340 lb RAWR and you're golden, OP. Just be sure you're registered properly for the weight.

^^^^ This, ( and a few other similar replies ), is also what I would say.

Go to a big winter-snowbird-resort like where I spend the winter and talk to the many guys that pull fifth wheels with 2500 class trucks. You'll get some first hand comments on how things are done in the real world.

"Enjoy your new fifth wheel and your very capable truck".
blt2ski
Moderator
Apr 06, 2018
I've run down the road at 9400-9600 gvwr with a GM rated at 9200, pulling a 6000 lb trailer, total gcwr was usually around 15-16K. My rating was 12500! I never felt unsafe towing said set with wife and 4 kids in the truck. Even been upwards of 20k GCWR. I was under my rated axel weight ratings. I will also point out, per weight laws of Wa St, I was LEGAL in ALL instances.
We buy tonnage in 2000 lb increments. One takes tare, ie empty wt, you appear to be just shy of 8000 lbs. Multiply by 1.5, so 11900 or so for you, you will by a license at the next highest ton, or 12K. This is what you would be legal too run down the road at here.
Assuming you have the tire width times 500lbs per inch, to hold that weight. More than likely you have 4 10-11" tires, so 5000 per tire, 10K per axel or 20K total for truck weight. I seriously doubt you will be weighing more than 20K for JUST the truck! From a true legal standpoint, both this states rules, which follows the Federal Bridge Law rules to a T, you have no worries from being pulled over. Even IF you were over your legal 12K, lets say 14K. This is not a moving violation, so it is not turned into the insurance company, licensing agency etc.
With this in mind, assuming 2000 lbs of payload to work with, divide that number by the % of HW you want, and you will have the max trailer you can tow. 10% is 2000/.10 = 20K lbs of trailer. 20% is 2000/.20 = 10,000 lbs of trailer.
Also remember you have over 11000 lbs of axel capacity, many larger trucks in the DOT class 4 and larger relm, the gvwr does equal the sum of the axel capacities. My class 5 Navistar is this way.

marty
JIMNLIN
Explorer III
Apr 05, 2018
864 wrote:
1. It appears the negative effects of exceeding the payload capacity of the tow vehicle are: possible legalities, wear and tear, and safety. Any others?

LOL...yeah its getting redundit or redundet or blather...bla...blab...anyways here goes. No bash meant op as we all had to have this explained at one time. Ford diesel forums can give you real skinny on F250/F350 srw same as/etc.
Anyways
1. possible legalities... (civil or legal) are being over a axle/tire load ratings or if your state has some type of weights for registration purposes (not all state do). Payload number or gvwr numbers aren't used for any civil or legal weight issues.
Wear and tear... these same exact trucks are worked hard every day by our commercial brothers and sisters right up to their max axle/tire loads ... and we do so for several hundred thousand miles. Those that want load the truck up and pull a rv can do the same.
NHTSA says this about components of the GAWR:
"Gross Axle Weight Rating is the rated load-carrying capacity of an individual axle and wheel assembly. (It represents the load that may be steadily sustained by the components in the system; i.e., tires, rims, hubs, bearing, axles, brakes, suspension, sub frame, etc. with the GAWR limited by the components with the lowest working rating".

Safety ....same answer as wear and tear.

The only way to determine how much load your truck can carry in the bed (pin weight/hitch/other gear/etc) is take it to a set of CAT scales and weigh the trucks front and rear axles separately. Many F250/350 owners report the truck rear axle can weigh in the 3000-3200 lb range leaving around 3100-3200 lbs for a in the bed payload.

Get'r weighed and you will know your exact payload numbers.
IdaD
Explorer
Apr 04, 2018
I don't think I really have the energy to get into this again, so I'll just say OP's truck should be able to safely handle most if not almost all fifth wheels in the size range he's contemplating. Stay within that 6340 lb RAWR and you're golden, OP. Just be sure you're registered properly for the weight.
BigSpenda864
Explorer
Apr 04, 2018
Thanks to those who actually took the time to read and reply with useful information and opinions...

The truck accessory places always seem to have an answer. They claim adding a few devices/systems will make a 250 equal to a 350 in payload capacity. Of course they are selling the devices so you have to take that into account. The difference between a 2018 F250 and F350 is basically springs. That's why I ask the questions.

It sounds like its a cost-benefit analysis between a TT I can handle now and a 5er with a new truck. If that's the choice, I'll likely go TT. Thanks again to those who actually helped!