RV Fuel Issues & Prices - Post 'Em Here!

LindsayRichards wrote:
I would love to hear more about the CNG vehicle that somebody mentioned they had earlier. What kind is it, what type engine, performance, actual physical size and location of tank, and the possibility of home overnight compression of natural gas up to the 3,500 psi. I think this technology can really help the US as well as RV'ers. Please answer.

our is a 2002 Honda Civic. It's a factory made CNG car which Honda has been producing since 1998, selling to the public since probably 2005? But never in any real volume numbers. They mostly sell to power company fleets. Our was bought off auction by a Utah car dealer (CNG is real cheap in Utah) then I bought it from the dealer and had it shipped to California about 2 years ago.

To answer your questions: It's a typical Civic engine factory converted over to CNG, performance is a bit lower than it's Gasoline counterpart. Good mileage at 30+ mpg but it only holds about 8 gge (gas gallon equivalent) so range is not great. We get a real world 200 miles before filling up. The tank is physically large, and is in the trunk, leaving you with only 1/2 the trunk for storage useage. It's my wife's daily driver, she keeps an emergency kit, and a gym bag in there, that's about all that fits. :)

Home compression is possible, and lowers the cost of CNG to ~$1.50/gge (when you include the energy cost of running the compressor) and is super easy to use. However, it is very expensive to set up. Not only does the equipment cost north of $5000 (more like $10k if you want a nice 1 gallon per hour setup instead of the .5 gallon per hour of the slow pumps) but installation must be done by a 'professional installer', getting your city to approve the install has been known to be challenging, and the home pumps have a reputation for being less than reliable. :R But home fill definitely is possible, and IMO would be a game changer if it got cheaper. Not sure why there has never been a push for this? :?

Since my wife drives right by SFO every day she commutes, and there are 5+ CNG stations withing a few miles of the airport, it makes no sense for us to do home fill. The payback is not there when we can quick fill at the station for $2.14/gge (as of this morning). If I thought we were going to keep CNG cars long term, I'd invest in a home fill just for the convenience of it, but to be honest I probably won't buy another one.

The biggest downside to ME is the complexity. You take an existing gas powered car. Then on top of all the systems, add another one. And it's a potentially dangerous high pressure (3600psi) system that is complex and requires very specific tools and skills to work on. And the tanks themselves are only good for 15 years (and must be inspected every 3 years) so there is no used market once your car is over that age. At 15 years you either dump the car or replace the tank to the tune of $3000! They are not very DIY friendly, just a whole nother layer of complication on an already complicated car. That said, we have over 100k miles on ours and it's showing no signs of problems so in my case the reliability issues are theoretical, not real. However, our fuel tank expires in 2017, what then?

Anyway, a bit long winded... I currently own both a CNG and an all electric car. And Gas, of course. Both CNG and electric are viable, but the infrastructure is lacking. Which is odd, since most homes already have both natural gas and electricity plumbed into them!

FWIW, the trucking industry is making a bit of a push for LNG, it's probably a better way to go for trucks/RV's than CNG.