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US refineries means refineries located in the US as opposed to those located in China and India. Do you have any examples of ND shale oil being shipped to either country? If you found gold on your land in the hills of CA, would you just leave it in the ground because the value was governed by the world price? Refined products made in the USA from domestic oil reduce our dependance on contries that hate us. For example the price of US natural gas is about 1/3 the world price. The success of the ND oil patch is due largely to the lack of thee government controls you suggest. The best people are the ones leaving CA to start businesses in TX, FL, LA, and the other right to work, low tax, business friendly states. CA is being left with the nonproductive citizens. Every 100 CA workers have to support 138 non workers. In Texas it is 82. Rape the earth is such a joke. Rape the economy is what the environmentalist want to do.

LindsayRichards wrote:
... All of the shale oil goes to US refineries...

The USA (thus, it's taxpayers) own no refineries, they are privately owned and may sell their product wherever they wish. They are in no sense "US refineries" other than they happen to be located in the US.

... and it's value is contributed to the supply side of the world wide supply demand equation.

The product goes into the world-wide pool and is in NO sense US gas. Any gas we in the US want must then be bought out of that pool. Thus, "US refineries" do NOTHING for energy independence or increasing US supply.

... ND oil country has no unemployment, McDonald's pays $15/hour with a sign on bonus, wages are very high, and property values are spiking.

And when it goes bust (as ALL resource exploitation does, unless it's under rigid government control like Saudi Arabia, etc.) there will be widespread poverty, unemployment and general misery, beyond anything the local government can handle.

People are fleeing CA and going to ND.

Good riddance. They're just plugging up the roads anyhow. Let ND have all that mess. And they WILL get the mess.

ND is beautiful and will remain so.

ND will be destroyed by this "rape the earth" crowd just like every victim of resource exploitation in history.

Thanks for the article. That would work nationwide also.

LindsayRichards wrote:
You have an extremely vivid imagination. All of the shale oil goes to US refineries and it's value is contributed to the supply side of the world wide supply demand equation. As far as getting the easily obtainable oil, this formation was considered unobtainable just a few years ago. This oil is located in shale strata 8,000 to 10,000 feet under the ground. It is to the advantage of the oil companies to obtain all they can. ND oil country has no unemployment, McDonald's pays $15/hour with a sign on bonus, wages are very high, and property values are spiking. It was recently rated by the Wall Street Journal as the best run state in the US. CA came in 50th (only because that was as low as it went.) People are fleeing CA and going to ND. ND is beautiful and will remain so.

Our leaders in NoDak have largely gotten out of the way in the success of the Bakken Country. Bad thing is they seem to spend the tax money recklessly. Clicky

LindsayRichards wrote:
People are fleeing CA and going to ND.

sure wouldn't know it from my commute! :B

You have an extremely vivid imagination. All of the shale oil goes to US refineries and it's value is contributed to the supply side of the world wide supply demand equation. As far as getting the easily obtainable oil, this formation was considered unobtainable just a few years ago. This oil is located in shale strata 8,000 to 10,000 feet under the ground. It is to the advantage of the oil companies to obtain all they can. ND oil country has no unemployment, McDonald's pays $15/hour with a sign on bonus, wages are very high, and property values are spiking. It was recently rated by the Wall Street Journal as the best run state in the US. CA came in 50th (only because that was as low as it went.) People are fleeing CA and going to ND. ND is beautiful and will remain so.

Crude oil is very expensive to ship by rail due to the very limited capacity (750 bbls) of a rail car. A relatively smaller refinery would need 200+ rail cars per day.

The oil pipeline will be built. No doubt about it.

The Bakken crude poses a unique problem in refining. Most refineries have been modified to process a continuing more viscus (thick) oil as the sweet crude became more scarce. I know some has been run as a test and it produced far too much "light ends" (gasses) for a refinery designed to process thick sour crude. Basically it requires less refining to obtain gasoline. It's not just thin but very very thin.

The USGS has a long history of underestimating going all the way back to Jimmy Carter times. The North Slope has already pumped 3 times their estimates and still doing 700,000 bbls a day. They didn't include anything from the Bakkens a few years ago.


We drove through your area of ND a few years back (from US 2) and it is very pretty. Wide open country. Looks like a band of Indians should be coming over the hills. Almost everything we saw on the road was oil related.

vikrv wrote:
Here's an article from National Geographic on the North Dakota oil trains that haul the Bakken shale oil away. Oil producers have not yet built pipelines to transport the oil and may not since pipelines are expensive and trains give them flexibility of destination where they send the crude to.

link

Canadian Pacific rolls right through our town of Harvey and all you see is oil cars. CP Rail has spent millions in enlarging the yard here in Harvey for switching cars and room for parked trains. They have been hiring conductors and engineers like crazy. We are about 130 miles from the heart of the Bakken US 52 which passes through Harvey is insane with traffic the last few years.

vikrv wrote:
I doubt they will ever build a pipeline from the Bakken. At an estimated 4-6 billion barrels of recoverable oil and an average lifetime pump rate of 2 million barrels/day means the oil would last around 8 years. USGS will update the recoverable estimate in 2013.

There is another formation under the Bakken called Three Forks which will be tapped in the future. In addition, more oil is being found north of Minot to about Bottineau that is being tapped into. This story from about two years ago on on 3 Forks. Also this clicky