Rv's are the new housing.

I'm not at all religious, but Jesus did make a very true statement. "The poor will always be with you" and homelessness is part of that. In California's case in particular, the state is distilling into three distinct social entities; the very poor, the civil servants like utility workers and government, and the ultra rich. Much of the middle class as we use to know it is gone. Engineers and so forth have fled the state cause of high taxes and cost of living. Teachers can't afford homes and some of them are living in their cars(or RV's). The cost of housing is the top issue that instigates out migration. The state lost 1 million residents or about 2.5% of it's population. Affordable housing is unaffordable due to the cost of land, regulations, permits, and it's the same story here in Oregon. Decades of selfish "No Growth" policies(in Oregon), and restrictive urban growth boundaries, conspire to put people on the street. Add to that the loss of millions of jobs from technology, and the concentration of wealth at the top, it's no surprise at all that we're witnessing a breakdown of society. This was all predicted very accurately by Karl Marx. He said "Capitalism, as a system, consumes itself" We are in the consumptive phase; with essentially the rich devouring the poor,and the elimination of good middle class jobs. As far the government; the redistribution of wealth is one of it's main purposes(taxation), and the rich have gamed that so badly that the progressive nature of the tax system has been destroyed. But that's a rant for another day.

Heres an idea on ending homelesness,build your own
:B

https://youtu.be/9j6IhGsWVcc

Crowe wrote:
incapable of helping themselves. It boils down to them making that choice. There are services available if they wanted them.

westernrvparkowner, Toedtoes answered this very well, but do you realize the contradiction here? And no, services are not always readily available.

We cannot eliminate homelessness. And there are those who are homeless due to bad choices. But we can't stop helping those who are truly in need for fear of helping some who don't deserve/need that help.

You are absolutely correct we cannot TOTALLY eliminate homelessness as there are some who choose that lifestyle and some who have made bad choices. Part of the issue is what you state-ensuring those that need the help get it while weeding out the low-life thieves who steal services that don't need them. Do you know that San Francisco's "low-income level" is $117,400 for a family of four? It's not just a question of getting services to the correct people-it's a multi-faceted issue including the absolutely ridiculous cost of housing. Sure, you can move and try to find a place within your current budget but then the cycle starts-affordable housing becomes unaffordable in a hurry. My son has a master's degree in engineering, makes VERY good money and has a large chunk of change for a deposit on a house-and he can't afford one in this area. That's one of the biggest parts of the cycle that needs to stop. Regrettably we need a housing-price crash to correct the situation, but that starts a whole new set of issues.

I agree with what you say. I do what I can to help people. I hope that others do what they can. And I don't begrudge government funds directed at helping those who need it. It may not be perfect but it does help.

fj12ryder wrote:

toedtoes wrote:

westernrvparkowner wrote:

gbopp wrote:

toedtoes wrote:
Until we as a society stop blaming people and start simply helping them, I agree there is no solution.

One problem is, with many who need help, the more we help the more 'entitlements' they expect and demand.

I often wonder how a CCC program would work in the 21st Century.

The federal government alone spent approximately $2.5 Billion on programs for the homeless in 2018. That would be $58,000 for each of those 43,000 homeless quoted in this thread. A more accurate accounting of homeless is around 500,000 making government spending around $5,000 per person. That amount doesn't include the billions spent by private charities, organizations, state and local governments, individuals and the like. That, to me, shows we are actually applying substantial aid and not just blaming the homeless. But like I posted earlier, maybe we need to also realize that it might not be possible to completely eliminate homelessness. Sadly and perhaps counter intuitive to conventional thinking, some people are homeless by not well considered personal choice.

We cannot eliminate homelessness. And there are those who are homeless due to bad choices. But we can't stop helping those who are truly in need for fear of helping some who don't deserve/need that help.

How, exactly, do you tell the difference? Man, if you have an answer to this you'd better step up. Because I sure don't, and near as I can tell neither does anyone else. My pockets are not bottomless and I can barely afford to take care of myself and relatives, I simply don't have the resources to help everyone that appears to need it.

You can't necessarily tell the difference. But I would rather help five "unworthies" than not help one "worthy".

No one can help everyone. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't help when we can. I pick up cheap blankets and keep them in the car - if I see someone outside in the cold, I offer them a blanket and hot meal. Sure, I might be helping someone who "chose to be homeless", but they are still cold and hungry and I can help, if only temporary. It's not for me to judge them. I take them at their word and leave it at that. And by helping this person today, whether worthy or not, I leave the door open for someone to help another person. If I don't help when I can, then someone suffers for it.

bob213 wrote:

toedtoes wrote:


Until we as a society stop blaming people and start simply helping them, I agree there is no solution.

Maybe we could help more if we stop supporting illegals and giving money to countries that hate us or don't appreciate what we do for them. Let's take care of the poor in our country first!

Here here, well said. And the older and wiser one gets, the more one realizes the gravity of others lives and that not all of them are responsible for their position in life.
However, there will ALWAYS be those that do not have the intelligence basically to survive on their own and definately not the wherewithal to prosper.
Of course it's near impossible on a large scale to weed out the abusers vs those truly in need
What to do? I say it won't change much really. I have close relatives that likely won't be able to take care of themselves as adults (autism) and coincidentally these children happened to be born to the lazy/ or ill intentioned part of the family. They are the next generation of homeless in the making, without personal/private support.
What to do? Notice a theme here? Some can't make it on their own, but having a dumpy rv to live in is better than a tarp under a bridge. Do I blow my retirement on these 2 children in my family? Been spending piles keeping that part of the family treading water already.
If every other family has just 1 person who doesn't appear they will make it in life, that's more than an epidemic. Fortunately the numbers are small, overall and don't see it changing a lot.

Maybe a RV ain't a bad solution.
CcC camps won't work, IMO. Those are for folks on the lower end of the income spectrum that are able to work effectively.
It really is a connnundrum.

Help them all you want to.

Forcibly taking from others, in order to help those you deem worthy, no.

toedtoes wrote:


Until we as a society stop blaming people and start simply helping them, I agree there is no solution.

Maybe we could help more if we stop supporting illegals and giving money to countries that hate us or don't appreciate what we do for them. Let's take care of the poor in our country first!

incapable of helping themselves. It boils down to them making that choice. There are services available if they wanted them.

westernrvparkowner, Toedtoes answered this very well, but do you realize the contradiction here? And no, services are not always readily available.

We cannot eliminate homelessness. And there are those who are homeless due to bad choices. But we can't stop helping those who are truly in need for fear of helping some who don't deserve/need that help.

You are absolutely correct we cannot TOTALLY eliminate homelessness as there are some who choose that lifestyle and some who have made bad choices. Part of the issue is what you state-ensuring those that need the help get it while weeding out the low-life thieves who steal services that don't need them. Do you know that San Francisco's "low-income level" is $117,400 for a family of four? It's not just a question of getting services to the correct people-it's a multi-faceted issue including the absolutely ridiculous cost of housing. Sure, you can move and try to find a place within your current budget but then the cycle starts-affordable housing becomes unaffordable in a hurry. My son has a master's degree in engineering, makes VERY good money and has a large chunk of change for a deposit on a house-and he can't afford one in this area. That's one of the biggest parts of the cycle that needs to stop. Regrettably we need a housing-price crash to correct the situation, but that starts a whole new set of issues.

toedtoes wrote:

westernrvparkowner wrote:

gbopp wrote:

toedtoes wrote:
Until we as a society stop blaming people and start simply helping them, I agree there is no solution.

One problem is, with many who need help, the more we help the more 'entitlements' they expect and demand.

I often wonder how a CCC program would work in the 21st Century.

The federal government alone spent approximately $2.5 Billion on programs for the homeless in 2018. That would be $58,000 for each of those 43,000 homeless quoted in this thread. A more accurate accounting of homeless is around 500,000 making government spending around $5,000 per person. That amount doesn't include the billions spent by private charities, organizations, state and local governments, individuals and the like. That, to me, shows we are actually applying substantial aid and not just blaming the homeless. But like I posted earlier, maybe we need to also realize that it might not be possible to completely eliminate homelessness. Sadly and perhaps counter intuitive to conventional thinking, some people are homeless by not well considered personal choice.

We cannot eliminate homelessness. And there are those who are homeless due to bad choices. But we can't stop helping those who are truly in need for fear of helping some who don't deserve/need that help.

How, exactly, do you tell the difference? Man, if you have an answer to this you'd better step up. Because I sure don't, and near as I can tell neither does anyone else. My pockets are not bottomless and I can barely afford to take care of myself and relatives, I simply don't have the resources to help everyone that appears to need it.

westernrvparkowner wrote:

gbopp wrote:

toedtoes wrote:
Until we as a society stop blaming people and start simply helping them, I agree there is no solution.

One problem is, with many who need help, the more we help the more 'entitlements' they expect and demand.

I often wonder how a CCC program would work in the 21st Century.

The federal government alone spent approximately $2.5 Billion on programs for the homeless in 2018. That would be $58,000 for each of those 43,000 homeless quoted in this thread. A more accurate accounting of homeless is around 500,000 making government spending around $5,000 per person. That amount doesn't include the billions spent by private charities, organizations, state and local governments, individuals and the like. That, to me, shows we are actually applying substantial aid and not just blaming the homeless. But like I posted earlier, maybe we need to also realize that it might not be possible to completely eliminate homelessness. Sadly and perhaps counter intuitive to conventional thinking, some people are homeless by not well considered personal choice.

We cannot eliminate homelessness. And there are those who are homeless due to bad choices. But we can't stop helping those who are truly in need for fear of helping some who don't deserve/need that help.