Safety

troubledwaters wrote:
Sounds like he's baiting a hook.

Ohhhhhhh, I'm hurt!

Lakeside

:B

https://youtu.be/ZzlgJ-SfKYE

Sounds like he's baiting a hook.

Cloud Dancer wrote:
IMO In order to give examples of individuals and groups that should "start taking responsibility for their lives and actions" we will need to go to another forum (political).
On subject, I don't even like to talk about how I handle and manage firearms.

Greetings Cloud Dancer. I have followed your posts often over the years. Talking politics and taking responsibility in the same sentence, I guess, would not be a good discussion here on RV.net.

BUT, I would enjoy reading how you would handle and manage firearms. Your posts in the past have been informative and interesting to read. I suspect your views on firearms would be beneficial to most all readers here. Muster up a cup of coffee, sit back and relax and lead us into your world. I am sure others would enjoy your efforts.

Lakeside

IMO In order to give examples of individuals and groups that should "start taking responsibility for their lives and actions" we will need to go to another forum (political).
On subject, I don't even like to talk about how I handle and manage firearms.

lakeside013104 wrote:

am1958 wrote:

People need to start taking responsibility for their lives and actions.

I choose the above line to quote you on.

Your statement is so powerful that it goes beyond the scope of what the average person can comprehend. If people WOULD take responsibility and accountability for their actions / lives, blue collar, white collar or no collar, this great nation of ours would be so much better off than it is today. You have made a goal for every individual to focus on.

Just imagine the impact of your statement if folks took it to heart.

Thanks am1958 for your forward thinking insight.

Lakeside

And I think this is a great and fitting comment that sums up pretty much everything.

Mike

am1958 wrote:

People need to start taking responsibility for their lives and actions.

I choose the above line to quote you on.

Your statement is so powerful that it goes beyond the scope of what the average person can comprehend. If people WOULD take responsibility and accountability for their actions / lives, blue collar, white collar or no collar, this great nation of ours would be so much better off than it is today. You have made a goal for every individual to focus on.

Just imagine the impact of your statement if folks took it to heart.

Thanks am1958 for your forward thinking insight.

Lakeside

doc brown wrote:
Rhagfo, I know that facility well just south of Pahrump. I've been going there for 9 years (31 courses to date). I started going to get the training necessary to have confidence and an understanding of the consequences of using a gun in a defensive situation. You can never have enough training. Not everyone that trains wants to carry, they just want to be competent with their weapon.

Can't wait, will be going there in May.

RPreeb wrote:


My point was that I, and most people with basic CC licenses, simply don't have the level of training and experience to make life and death decisions in the short time that will usually be available.

...I can whack someone with a baseball bat, and except in rare circumstances, he will live to go to jail, and no bystanders are at risk from anything I do with the bat.

You're in the mall with your wife (or children), peacefully waiting in line at the coffee shop in the food court as you're preparing to order your lowfat mocha soy latte with cinnamon shavings, when in walks a bad guy intent on shooting up the place. Assuming you weren't one of the first ones taken out, you immediately duck for cover underneath the closest table. The bad guy is looking for more people to shoot. Naturally you're unarmed because of your latent fear of guns in the hands of the public. Fortunately, there's an armed civilian next to you who can take out the bad guy before he continues on his shooting spree. Unfortunately, the armed civilian is contemplating whether or not he has "the level of training and experience to make life and death decisions in the short time" he has available or whether or not a Joe Citizen like him as the ability to make an accurate shot. Too late...

But good thing you chose a baseball bat instead, which you had to leave in the car because it can't be concealed and the mall has strict rules about possessing weapons. (Those signs must not have been on the door the bad guy used).

Point is, when danger is present, you're always going to seek refuge from someone who has the potential to help you. At that moment, you'll not be concerned about whether or not some of the untrained amateur's shots miss the target...as long the threat is suppressed.

RPreeb wrote:
My decision making processes are just fine, thank you.

Good, glad to hear it. I figured there was a pretty good chance you were exaggerating to make your point...but on the internet? I have a relative with Parkinson's. HE wouldn't be a good candidate for daily carry most days.

My point was that I, and most people with basic CC licenses, simply don't have the level of training and experience to make life and death decisions in the short time that will usually be available.

Why not? You are your own man, WHO do you want making those decisions for you? Most people are not the poor, helpless, sacrificial lambs that the media portrays.

We make life and death decisions every day. Cross the street here? Pull out into traffic now, or wait for that truck to stop- regardless of light being red or green, avoid that bad part of town, etc.

But I'm not prepared to take the chance that I'd be the one to miss my target and hit someone minding his own business a block away.

Do you drive? By the same logic, you wouldn't want to be the one who swerves to miss a kid in the street and causes the family in the minivan to run off the road and crash into an innocent bystander at the bus stop - all because you swerved left 6 inches too far. There really is a limit to Fear and how likely a series of increasingly UN-likely events are going to all take place together.

Otherwise, why even leave the house?

I don't think I'd have any psychological problems with taking down a bad guy in a him or me situation - regrets yes

THAT is a good statement. Here is an event that just took place, with that same sentiment: Hate that boy dead but don't hate I shot him

Even trained LEO's miss more than they hit in a gunfight. Any Joe Citizen who thinks he's going to do better is not facing the realities of the situation.

You really don't have any basis for making that assumption. *This* "Joe Citizen" used to train officers in marksmanship and shoot/no-shoot scenarios, even designing scenarios and providing grading and discussions about their performance, all over the US.

Even beyond that, LEOs have to contend with use of force and power of arrest/preventing escape. Joe Citizen only has to worry about stopping the threat to protect himself and others.

It is "interesting" to participate in Use of Force Training with LEOs. Many of the Q&A responses are, "Yes, you can do that, but understand you are putting yourself at risk of legal action"

Many of the returns are, "I *will* go home to my family at the end of the day"

Similar to "Rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6"

As I mentioned earlier, there is a LOT more depth to this subject than the "Pro vs Anti" arguments that are based mostly on rhetoric and even hate.

But it isn't in the best interest of the political and business interests for the average Citizen to THINK for themselves. I wish more people would ;)

Carry or don't carry, your choice. I won't force anyone to do one or the other. But just because it isn't the choice of SOME people, doesn't mean EVERYONE ELSE has to make the SAME choice.

Pretty simple, actually ;)