Second Opinion, and a few questions
Hi! I posted a similar question on another forum (popupportal.com), and it was suggested that I pose the questions on here as well. I'm relatively new to trailer camping (I've rented a travel trailer a few times), and I think that I'm ready to take the plunge into ownership. To that end, I would appreciate a second (or third) set of eyes on my calculations to verify that what I'm looking at is reasonable.
I have a 2015 Ford Expedition 4WD EcoBoost, with the tow package. Per the Owners Manual, GCVWR is 15,100 lb, max tow rating is 9,200 lb, and max tongue rating is 920 lb with a weight distributing hitch. Per the sticker on the door frame, the GVWR of the tow vehicle is 7,500 lb, FAWR is 3,550 lb, RAWR is 4,300 lb, and payload is 1,364 lb. I've weighed the vehicle on a professional scale with a full 28gal tank of gas, and the weight is 6,080 lb.
* Question One: Why would the payload be 1,364 if the actual weight is 6,080, which should make the payload 1,420lb (difference of 56lb)? I've heard that the yellow sticker takes into account a 150lb driver, but the manual doesn't mention anything about this (and the difference isn't that far off). I may have some fluid levels a bit low, but I wouldn't think that they would be 56lb worth...
This difference matters because as far as I can tell payload appears to be the critical factor in my calculations. My family of 4 and I currently weigh a total of 585 lb (though they're still growing), and I plan to hold on to this trailer for a number of years, so I have to plan for their full weight. I estimate that fully grown we'll be at about 700 lb total. So, assuming that we keep minimal extra gear in the tow vehicle while driving, that leaves approximately 664 lb (or is it 720?) of available payload for trailer tongue and weight distributing hitch. The little bit of research that I've done tells me that WDHs weigh 60-110 lb, and since payload is so valuable, I'm assuming that I can find one closer to 60lb, leaving about 600 lb (or 660?) of payload for tongue weight.
I have 3 kids, so I have a fairly limited selection of trailers on the market to choose from. I plan to do some multi-day travel trips with this trailer, so I'm not really interested in a popup or hybrid due to the significant setup/takedown time of the beds. The kids are opposed to sharing beds, and I'm not interested in converting sofas or tables to beds every day, so I really want 3 individual bunks to keep the peace. And my payload limits me from the really big bunkhouses on the market (plus, my fear of towing a 38' monster).
The trailer that I'm currently looking at is the K-Z Spree 240BHS: http://www.kz-rv.com/products/spree-travel-trailers/240BHS.html
GVWR 6500 lb, dry weight 5170, dry hitch weight 570. Assuming 160 lb for propane and battery, 384 lb of water (40 gallons + 6 for heater), and 500 lb of assorted gear (I measured 532lb the last time we rented for a 2 week trip, but there's some stuff we never used), the loaded trailer should weigh approximately 6214 + options. Since I haven't purchased yet, I don't know what the actual weight is, but I'm guessing that 86 lb is a reasonable guess for options, meaning a loaded weight of 6300 lb. Total combined vehicle weight would be 13,140 lb, which is 87% of max combined weight. If we assume worst case scenario of a fully loaded 6500lb trailer, the total combined vehicle weight would be 13,340lb, or 88% of max.
Here's where the real guessing comes into play. Tongue weight is supposed to be 10-15% of trailer weight, which would calculate to 630-945 lb (less if I don't carry water, and limit some of the gear). Obviously, due to the payload capacity, I'm going to have to keep it right around 10%, which seems like it should be feasible because this specific trailer has a cargo area in front and back, so I should be able to adjust distribution of weight within the trailer a bit more than most other models. So, if I can adjust it to keep the tongue weight to 630 lb, the tow vehicle would be carrying 7470, which is only 30 lb under max GVWR.
* Question Two: I would be pretty close to the tow vehicles GVWR, but 2000 lb (13%) or more below the total combined weight rating. I've towed with similar weights in the "mountains" of the east coast, but I've never towed out west. Would this setup work in the higher average elevations out west? My impression is that tow vehicle GVWR is mostly limited by the structural vehicle components (axles, tires, frame, etc), and GCVWR would be limited more by engine/transmission/brakes. I know that engines lose some power as you go up in elevation, so I'm not going to be winning any races over the passes, but I *THINK* I'll be able to actually get over the passes eventually (though I'll be trying to avoid the 11,000' passes all the same). The weight on the structural elements wouldn't change, but I'm hoping that my lower GCW will help with the reduced power from higher elevations. What do you all think?
* Question Three: Do you see any fatal flaws in my calculations or assumptions? Better to learn about them now than after I've made a trailer purchase...
* Question Four, regarding weight distributing hitches: Despite what I've been told by multiple trailer dealers, I know that tongue weight doesn't just "disappear" with a WDH. I know that the weight's still there; all a WDH does is transfer some of the load off of the rear TV axle to the front TV axle. But recently I heard that some of the tongue weight also gets transferred to the trailer axles as well. Is there any truth to this? If so, how much should I expect? As I've stated above, I seem to be limited by payload, so any tongue weight transferred back to the trailer would help me add a bit more comfort buffer on the TV's payload (and maybe give me a few more options for WDHs, which seem to mostly be in the 90-110 lb range, rather than 60 lb). But then, how does this weight redistribution interact with the requirement that at least 10% of the weight remains on the tongue? Should I be planning on redistributing weight within the trailer to keep at least 10% of the trailer weight being put on the front and rear axles of the TV, after the WDH is in place? Or does the 10-15% requirement come into play before adding the WDH?
* Question Five, also regarding WDHs: The ratings on WDHs are a bit confusing to me. I've read that some ratings are maximums, and some ratings are distribution ratings, so what exactly should I be looking for (assuming a 6500lb trailer with tongue weight around 650 lb)? Is a 6000lb/600lb hitch going to work for me? Or should I be looking at the 10000lb/1000lb ones? (There don't seem to be 8000lb/800lb WDHs on the market, for some reason.) I've heard that if your spring bars are too strong, they don't properly distribute the weight, so "just going bigger" doesn't necessarily seem smart to me.
Thanks all for your thoughts on this. I've learned quite a bit lurking on this forum recently...when I first purchased the Expedition, I naively thought that "max tow" was the only thing I had to worry about, because that's what they advertise. I didn't even know that there was a payload rating to pay attention to.
I have a 2015 Ford Expedition 4WD EcoBoost, with the tow package. Per the Owners Manual, GCVWR is 15,100 lb, max tow rating is 9,200 lb, and max tongue rating is 920 lb with a weight distributing hitch. Per the sticker on the door frame, the GVWR of the tow vehicle is 7,500 lb, FAWR is 3,550 lb, RAWR is 4,300 lb, and payload is 1,364 lb. I've weighed the vehicle on a professional scale with a full 28gal tank of gas, and the weight is 6,080 lb.
* Question One: Why would the payload be 1,364 if the actual weight is 6,080, which should make the payload 1,420lb (difference of 56lb)? I've heard that the yellow sticker takes into account a 150lb driver, but the manual doesn't mention anything about this (and the difference isn't that far off). I may have some fluid levels a bit low, but I wouldn't think that they would be 56lb worth...
This difference matters because as far as I can tell payload appears to be the critical factor in my calculations. My family of 4 and I currently weigh a total of 585 lb (though they're still growing), and I plan to hold on to this trailer for a number of years, so I have to plan for their full weight. I estimate that fully grown we'll be at about 700 lb total. So, assuming that we keep minimal extra gear in the tow vehicle while driving, that leaves approximately 664 lb (or is it 720?) of available payload for trailer tongue and weight distributing hitch. The little bit of research that I've done tells me that WDHs weigh 60-110 lb, and since payload is so valuable, I'm assuming that I can find one closer to 60lb, leaving about 600 lb (or 660?) of payload for tongue weight.
I have 3 kids, so I have a fairly limited selection of trailers on the market to choose from. I plan to do some multi-day travel trips with this trailer, so I'm not really interested in a popup or hybrid due to the significant setup/takedown time of the beds. The kids are opposed to sharing beds, and I'm not interested in converting sofas or tables to beds every day, so I really want 3 individual bunks to keep the peace. And my payload limits me from the really big bunkhouses on the market (plus, my fear of towing a 38' monster).
The trailer that I'm currently looking at is the K-Z Spree 240BHS: http://www.kz-rv.com/products/spree-travel-trailers/240BHS.html
GVWR 6500 lb, dry weight 5170, dry hitch weight 570. Assuming 160 lb for propane and battery, 384 lb of water (40 gallons + 6 for heater), and 500 lb of assorted gear (I measured 532lb the last time we rented for a 2 week trip, but there's some stuff we never used), the loaded trailer should weigh approximately 6214 + options. Since I haven't purchased yet, I don't know what the actual weight is, but I'm guessing that 86 lb is a reasonable guess for options, meaning a loaded weight of 6300 lb. Total combined vehicle weight would be 13,140 lb, which is 87% of max combined weight. If we assume worst case scenario of a fully loaded 6500lb trailer, the total combined vehicle weight would be 13,340lb, or 88% of max.
Here's where the real guessing comes into play. Tongue weight is supposed to be 10-15% of trailer weight, which would calculate to 630-945 lb (less if I don't carry water, and limit some of the gear). Obviously, due to the payload capacity, I'm going to have to keep it right around 10%, which seems like it should be feasible because this specific trailer has a cargo area in front and back, so I should be able to adjust distribution of weight within the trailer a bit more than most other models. So, if I can adjust it to keep the tongue weight to 630 lb, the tow vehicle would be carrying 7470, which is only 30 lb under max GVWR.
* Question Two: I would be pretty close to the tow vehicles GVWR, but 2000 lb (13%) or more below the total combined weight rating. I've towed with similar weights in the "mountains" of the east coast, but I've never towed out west. Would this setup work in the higher average elevations out west? My impression is that tow vehicle GVWR is mostly limited by the structural vehicle components (axles, tires, frame, etc), and GCVWR would be limited more by engine/transmission/brakes. I know that engines lose some power as you go up in elevation, so I'm not going to be winning any races over the passes, but I *THINK* I'll be able to actually get over the passes eventually (though I'll be trying to avoid the 11,000' passes all the same). The weight on the structural elements wouldn't change, but I'm hoping that my lower GCW will help with the reduced power from higher elevations. What do you all think?
* Question Three: Do you see any fatal flaws in my calculations or assumptions? Better to learn about them now than after I've made a trailer purchase...
* Question Four, regarding weight distributing hitches: Despite what I've been told by multiple trailer dealers, I know that tongue weight doesn't just "disappear" with a WDH. I know that the weight's still there; all a WDH does is transfer some of the load off of the rear TV axle to the front TV axle. But recently I heard that some of the tongue weight also gets transferred to the trailer axles as well. Is there any truth to this? If so, how much should I expect? As I've stated above, I seem to be limited by payload, so any tongue weight transferred back to the trailer would help me add a bit more comfort buffer on the TV's payload (and maybe give me a few more options for WDHs, which seem to mostly be in the 90-110 lb range, rather than 60 lb). But then, how does this weight redistribution interact with the requirement that at least 10% of the weight remains on the tongue? Should I be planning on redistributing weight within the trailer to keep at least 10% of the trailer weight being put on the front and rear axles of the TV, after the WDH is in place? Or does the 10-15% requirement come into play before adding the WDH?
* Question Five, also regarding WDHs: The ratings on WDHs are a bit confusing to me. I've read that some ratings are maximums, and some ratings are distribution ratings, so what exactly should I be looking for (assuming a 6500lb trailer with tongue weight around 650 lb)? Is a 6000lb/600lb hitch going to work for me? Or should I be looking at the 10000lb/1000lb ones? (There don't seem to be 8000lb/800lb WDHs on the market, for some reason.) I've heard that if your spring bars are too strong, they don't properly distribute the weight, so "just going bigger" doesn't necessarily seem smart to me.
Thanks all for your thoughts on this. I've learned quite a bit lurking on this forum recently...when I first purchased the Expedition, I naively thought that "max tow" was the only thing I had to worry about, because that's what they advertise. I didn't even know that there was a payload rating to pay attention to.
