Stealth Camping

kvangil wrote:

Dog Folks wrote:


Am I going to charge across the campground, flags a flying, in my golf cart at 4:00 am to make you stop? Not a chance.

I am going to check the office for payment and other possibilities.

Finally, I am going to ASK you about payment, because, "darn it I just can't find it." "Maybe you forgot?"

After all, the goal here is to receive payment for services rendered, not go to court.

That's perfectly legitimate and tactful, considering you are the camp host. :)

LOL LOL LOL

Number One: That scene would burn your eyes out. :E

Number Two: I am just too old for early morning chases. :(

Number Three: In checking things out, I got your tag number. That is all I need to contact you. You can run but can't hide. :W

Dog Folks wrote:


Am I going to charge across the campground, flags a flying, in my golf cart at 4:00 am to make you stop? Not a chance.

I am going to check the office for payment and other possibilities.

Finally, I am going to ASK you about payment, because, "darn it I just can't find it." "Maybe you forgot?"

After all, the goal here is to receive payment for services rendered, not go to court.

That's perfectly legitimate and tactful, considering you are the camp host. :)

kvangil wrote:

Dog Folks wrote:

I agree that proof positive cannot always be established, but I will not let some one steal if I have reasonable suspicion that a theft has occurred.

I'll jump in on this conversation... :) In regards to the late arrival/early leave folks, "reasonable suspicion" is subjective. How do you establish "reasonable suspicion" in this case? I totally agree about the guy who admits to stealing a site for the night because it came straight out of the horse's mouth, or the guy who's caught red-handed. but I'd be careful about "reasonable suspicion."

But if I called ahead to the campground while I'm 2 hours away, paid over the phone, pulled in at 11pm without unhitching and just went straight to bed, got up at 7am to head out and continue my trip before the office opened, and someone came to confront me because he had "reasonable suspicion" that I was stealing a site just because I came in late and left early, I'd be pretty offended and have a few choice words for him.... And note that we were in this situation on a recent trip, minus the part about being confronted.

I could not agree more. It is all in how it is handled and you are approached. I have had lawn enforcement training and the one thing I learned is that there are ALWAYS three sides to a story/situation; Your side as you perceive it. My side as I perceive it. And finally the truth.

I am always willing to give someone the benefit of the doubt, and try to eliminate all possible explanations and listen to your side before making a decision.

Am I going to charge across the campground, flags a flying, in my golf cart at 4:00 am to make you stop? Not a chance.

I am going to check the office for payment and other possibilities.

Finally, I am going to ASK you about payment, because, "darn it I just can't find it." "Maybe you forgot?"

After all, the goal here is to receive payment for services rendered, not go to court.

Dog Folks wrote:

I agree that proof positive cannot always be established, but I will not let some one steal if I have reasonable suspicion that a theft has occurred.

I'll jump in on this conversation... :) In regards to the late arrival/early leave folks, "reasonable suspicion" is subjective. How do you establish "reasonable suspicion" in this case? I totally agree about the guy who admits to stealing a site for the night because it came straight out of the horse's mouth, or the guy who's caught red-handed. but I'd be careful about "reasonable suspicion."

But if I called ahead to the campground while I'm 2 hours away, paid over the phone, pulled in at 11pm without unhitching and just went straight to bed, got up at 7am to head out and continue my trip before the office opened, and someone came to confront me because he had "reasonable suspicion" that I was stealing a site just because I came in late and left early, I'd be pretty offended and have a few choice words for him.... And note that we were in this situation on a recent trip, minus the part about being confronted.

2012Coleman: When you catch them and they ADMIT to the theft/attempted theft, then all speculation is out the window.

Besides in the cases I posted about, I KNEW that they had not made payment as I was the only one with a key to the office and checked for payment. The other case I had rangers in a gatehouse to confirm non-payment. Speculation? Bull hockey. Again theft pure and simple.

Generally, I agree that proof positive cannot always be established, but I will not let some one steal if I have reasonable suspicion that a theft has occurred.

I am not to say: "Well I am speculating so I will let them go. Ain't happening."

Circumstantial evidence is good enough for our justice system. It is good enough for me.

Besides, I am not the one that will prosecute nor reach final judgment.

Dog Folks wrote:

2012Coleman wrote:
All I have to offer is this:

spec·u·late
verb
verb: speculate; 3rd person present: speculates; past tense: speculated; past participle: speculated; gerund or present participle: speculating

1. form a theory or conjecture about a subject without firm evidence - often occurs on internet forums.

All I have to offer is this:

WITNESS
1: attestation of a fact or event : testimony

2: one that gives evidence; specifically : one who testifies in a cause or before a judicial tribunal

3: one asked to be present at a transaction so as to be able to testify to its having taken place

4: one who has personal knowledge of something

I have been there, done that, and personally observed these thefts. It happens. No speculation on my part, at least.

I do agree that plenty of speculation occurs here, in the entire forum.

Sorry - that's still speculating. Your coming to your conclusion based on hearsay. Lots of ways the person in question may not have been a thief. Your experience should cover those reasons as well. I agree that based on your experience, he COULD have been a thief, but no way can you be sure of it - you can only speculate. Circumstantial evidence isn't enough to convict in this case. I'm not saying that this type of thing doesn't happen but you can't know if it is based on past experience.

The OP may even have other motivations for coming to his conclusions, but I won't go into any possibilities as I would only be speculating, and that would not be fair to the OP - not nice either.

Maybe - just maybe, this happened without the OP seeing it:

mabynack wrote:
I've pulled into a campground after the office closed and left early in the morning. I slid an envelope under the office door with a note and some cash to cover my stay. I include my phone number in case they felt I owe them more than I left.

I've pulled into a campground after the office closed and left early in the morning. I slid an envelope under the office door with a note and some cash to cover my stay. I include my phone number in case they felt I owe them more than I left.

2012Coleman wrote:
All I have to offer is this:

spec·u·late
verb
verb: speculate; 3rd person present: speculates; past tense: speculated; past participle: speculated; gerund or present participle: speculating

1. form a theory or conjecture about a subject without firm evidence - often occurs on internet forums.

All I have to offer is this:

WITNESS
1: attestation of a fact or event : testimony

2: one that gives evidence; specifically : one who testifies in a cause or before a judicial tribunal

3: one asked to be present at a transaction so as to be able to testify to its having taken place

4: one who has personal knowledge of something

I have been there, done that, and personally observed these thefts. It happens. No speculation on my part, at least.

I do agree that plenty of speculation occurs here, in the entire forum.

All I have to offer is this:

spec·u·late
verb
verb: speculate; 3rd person present: speculates; past tense: speculated; past participle: speculated; gerund or present participle: speculating

1. form a theory or conjecture about a subject without firm evidence - often occurs on internet forums.

I had an experience where I pulled in at the 1st (private) CG that was available upon getting off the interstate @ about 11:30 one night.

Didn't unhook, just crashed for 5-6 hours and was hookedup and snooping around the office at 0600 the next morning..no sign, no number, no "nothing".

Not knowing any better, I get an envelope from the truck to put some $$ in when a guy pulls up behind me, tells me to hurry up and that we had to be out by 6:30 or the office would be open and we'd have to pay. "Say what?" says I

This guy apparently came to this park frequently after 10:00 (closing time) and left before 6:30....all without paying. He continued to get huffy when I took another 5 mins to put $25 in an envelope and slide it under the door.

...so it happens at least once.