Suggestions for improving towing in an F150?

rhetthughes wrote:

lawrosa wrote:
Hers before sumos fully loaded before.. and after

Thank you for those pictures and thoughts. I have been leaning towards bilsteins and something like the sumos as the way to go. My sag is not quite that much as you are showing prior to adding the sumos, but I tell ya, when I hit a pothole on the road with my back tires, it is a jolt like something fierce! So I figured I was close to my suspension’s limit and wanted to offer it a boost. You mentioned the Sumo springs. Do you prefer them over the timbrens for any reason? I have read that timbrens will help level the load but will also makenthe ride fairly rough when towing. I’m not looking for some sort of glamorous ride when towing, but I also don’t like the feeling I get hitting those potholes. Hope to find something that provides more support and a bit of give to take the “shock” out of those rough roads. I95, I26, I20 are all a disaster here in South Carolina.

the tims are harder and from what I read will give you a hard hit. And when unloaded. I think they sit right on the axle. I like the sumos becuase they sit 1-2" off the axle. Only come into play with a load.

I have a 740 lbs TW. I went to florida fully loaded as in the first pic without the sumos. The truck sagged as shown, and the leafs did a good job, but hitting bumps I was at or near my bump stops.

1500 springs are weak IMO and having a long bed is no help.

So the sumos start touching the axles with about 200-250 lbs on the rear. They are 900 lbs capacity. The rear is more firm when bumps are hit, or over bridge aprons.

My other option would of been super springs. That would of lifted the rear some, but the ride unloaded would be firm probably and I didnt want that..

The super springs are a bolt on add a leaf..

I got the sumo springs cheap with a coupon code. I believe they were less then $130 bucks..

I upgraded to the E rated tires. Made a big difference. I also upgraded the shocks to Bilsteins and added airbags. I would say that biggest difference was the air bags. It added some stability and lifted the truck up to be stable. The key is to make sure you don't have a dip between the truck and trailer.

Ryan

handye9 wrote:

APT wrote:
Spend $15 at a CAT scale and adjust your WDH to restore 100% lost front axle weight. That will likely improve handling greatly. I don't recommend rear suspension aids combined with a WDH.

When it's time to replace your tires, get light truck load rated tires, not passenger.

I'll second that !!


Some things to consider:

Tires - Passenger (P) rated tires are designed more for passenger comfort and have softer sidewalls than truck (LT) tires. This allows more side to side flexing.

Recommended tire air pressure - Also designed more towards comfort, the number listed on your loading sticker is lower than what your pressure should be for hauling a heavy load. Passenger tires, with lowered air pressure, are much more susceptible to sidewall flexing.

WDH setup - If your distribution hitch is not restoring enough weight to your front axles, you may experience some steering and handling issues. Air bags and helper springs may improve the appearance of level towing and may give you a softer ride, but, they do not restore front axle weight, nor do they increase any towing and carrying ratings.

Average tongue weight is 12 - 13 percent of loaded trailer weight, and, it is not a constant number. It goes up and down with every load and during every trip. Depending on location (in relation to the trailer's axles), storage areas and holding tanks can have a significant impact on tongue weight. Looking at your floor plan, your trailer has a front pass through storage area. Most of that weight goes directly onto your tongue weight.

Average camping load (pots and pans, dishes, camp chairs, BBQ equipment, groceries, water, etc) is 800 - 1000 lbs. Ten to fifteen percent of this, adds to tongue weight.

Your trailer started out near 6800 lbs, empty. That doesn't include dealer installed options, propane, and quite possibly a battery or two. With an average load, it could have a loaded weight around 8000 lbs and tongue weight in the area of 1100 lbs. Add 100 lbs for your distributing hitch, and your trailer could be eating up 1200 of your 1960 payload. Now, subtract weight of any aftermarket accessories, your family, and cargo. Are you still "well within" your payload?


Scale weights will give you a better picture of how well your truck and trailer are matched, how well your weight distribution is setup, and a more accurate picture of loaded trailer weight and tongue weight. If you do this, do it while on a camping trip. Get your scale weights with family, cargo, groceries, and water on board.

Fist pass - truck / trailer with WD applied
Second pass - truck / trailer without WD applied
Third pass - leave trailer in parking lot and weigh just the truck with the family and cargo on board.

First time hitting the scales, has been an unpleasant surprise for many of us.

When manufacturers determine their "max tow" rating, they have no way of knowing what or who the consumer will be carrying in addition to the trailer weight. The consumer needs to adjust those "max towing" and payload numbers, accordingly. IE: If manufacturer says your max tow rating is 10,000 lbs and you put 1000 lbs of people and cargo in the vehicle, it's max tow rating becomes 9000 lbs.

Manufacturers will also tell you, your individual "max towing capacity" is limited to the weakest link in your overall towing systems. In most cases, that weak link is either payload or the hitch receiver, but, it could also be tires, axles, wheels, brakes, power train, drive train, or suspension.

Also note... None of us have 100% of the info needed to give you an exact fix. We don't know the size of your family, we don't know the condition of roads you are driving on, we don't know the weather you're driving in, and we don't know what your cargo may be.

A while back, we had a gentleman ask about matching up his truck and trailer. With all the information provided, his numbers looked like he was slightly under his specs. He purchased said trailer and came back with questions about handling issues. Turned out, one of his passengers was handicapped and he was carrying 500 lbs of wheel chair equipment. With the added cargo weight, he was overloaded.

This is all great info. Thank you for that. Now to find a nearby CAT scale... The way I came up with my figure (and when I said 800, I miss typed and should have typed 900, but I still may be way off) is as follows: the sticker on my camper said 650 dry hitch, the stuff in the front pass through plus inside bedroom cabinets, under bed, etc is no more than 200 lbs. My WDH with bars is about 100. I have two 20 lb propane tanks and one battery. I then figured some of that front pass through weight gets distributed to the trailer axels. So roughly 900 lbs. The dealership set up the weight distribution and while this may not be perfect, measuring the ground to the top of the wheel well, the back end sank 1.5 inches and the front end sank 3/4 of an inch. So after reading some thoughts here, Am I correct to understand that one thing I want to do is adjust the WDH to get that front end to sink about the same as the back end - so I need to do adjust it so it presses the front down a bit and lifts the back a bit. Would that be correct? Thanks again for yall’s time and help in making sure I get it right. Truthfully, I want to upgrade to a F350 SRW, but that is not an option for our budget at this time.

lawrosa wrote:
Hers before sumos fully loaded before.. and after

Thank you for those pictures and thoughts. I have been leaning towards bilsteins and something like the sumos as the way to go. My sag is not quite that much as you are showing prior to adding the sumos, but I tell ya, when I hit a pothole on the road with my back tires, it is a jolt like something fierce! So I figured I was close to my suspension’s limit and wanted to offer it a boost. You mentioned the Sumo springs. Do you prefer them over the timbrens for any reason? I have read that timbrens will help level the load but will also makenthe ride fairly rough when towing. I’m not looking for some sort of glamorous ride when towing, but I also don’t like the feeling I get hitting those potholes. Hope to find something that provides more support and a bit of give to take the “shock” out of those rough roads. I95, I26, I20 are all a disaster here in South Carolina.

APT wrote:
Spend $15 at a CAT scale and adjust your WDH to restore 100% lost front axle weight. That will likely improve handling greatly. I don't recommend rear suspension aids combined with a WDH.

When it's time to replace your tires, get light truck load rated tires, not passenger.

I'll second that !!


Some things to consider:

Tires - Passenger (P) rated tires are designed more for passenger comfort and have softer sidewalls than truck (LT) tires. This allows more side to side flexing.

Recommended tire air pressure - Also designed more towards comfort, the number listed on your loading sticker is lower than what your pressure should be for hauling a heavy load. Passenger tires, with lowered air pressure, are much more susceptible to sidewall flexing.

WDH setup - If your distribution hitch is not restoring enough weight to your front axles, you may experience some steering and handling issues. Air bags and helper springs may improve the appearance of level towing and may give you a softer ride, but, they do not restore front axle weight, nor do they increase any towing and carrying ratings.

Average tongue weight is 12 - 13 percent of loaded trailer weight, and, it is not a constant number. It goes up and down with every load and during every trip. Depending on location (in relation to the trailer's axles), storage areas and holding tanks can have a significant impact on tongue weight. Looking at your floor plan, your trailer has a front pass through storage area. Most of that weight goes directly onto your tongue weight.

Average camping load (pots and pans, dishes, camp chairs, BBQ equipment, groceries, water, etc) is 800 - 1000 lbs. Ten to fifteen percent of this, adds to tongue weight.

Your trailer started out near 6800 lbs, empty. That doesn't include dealer installed options, propane, and quite possibly a battery or two. With an average load, it could have a loaded weight around 8000 lbs and tongue weight in the area of 1100 lbs. Add 100 lbs for your distributing hitch, and your trailer could be eating up 1200 of your 1960 payload. Now, subtract weight of any aftermarket accessories, your family, and cargo. Are you still "well within" your payload?


Scale weights will give you a better picture of how well your truck and trailer are matched, how well your weight distribution is setup, and a more accurate picture of loaded trailer weight and tongue weight. If you do this, do it while on a camping trip. Get your scale weights with family, cargo, groceries, and water on board.

Fist pass - truck / trailer with WD applied
Second pass - truck / trailer without WD applied
Third pass - leave trailer in parking lot and weigh just the truck with the family and cargo on board.

First time hitting the scales, has been an unpleasant surprise for many of us.

When manufacturers determine their "max tow" rating, they have no way of knowing what or who the consumer will be carrying in addition to the trailer weight. The consumer needs to adjust those "max towing" and payload numbers, accordingly. IE: If manufacturer says your max tow rating is 10,000 lbs and you put 1000 lbs of people and cargo in the vehicle, it's max tow rating becomes 9000 lbs.

Manufacturers will also tell you, your individual "max towing capacity" is limited to the weakest link in your overall towing systems. In most cases, that weak link is either payload or the hitch receiver, but, it could also be tires, axles, wheels, brakes, power train, drive train, or suspension.

Also note... None of us have 100% of the info needed to give you an exact fix. We don't know the size of your family, we don't know the condition of roads you are driving on, we don't know the weather you're driving in, and we don't know what your cargo may be.

A while back, we had a gentleman ask about matching up his truck and trailer. With all the information provided, his numbers looked like he was slightly under his specs. He purchased said trailer and came back with questions about handling issues. Turned out, one of his passengers was handicapped and he was carrying 500 lbs of wheel chair equipment. With the added cargo weight, he was overloaded.

Spend $15 at a CAT scale and adjust your WDH to restore 100% lost front axle weight. That will likely improve handling greatly. I don't recommend rear suspension aids combined with a WDH.

When it's time to replace your tires, get light truck load rated tires, not passenger. I too have and like my Bilstein HD shocks. My Suburban OEM shocks were underdamped when new, so I replaced them around 60k miles. The improvements were noticeable.

have you actually weighed the trailer ready to go along with weighing the tongue?

and have you actually weighed your truck loaded up with family and gear but no trailer attached?

If so, let us know what the trailer axle weights are, the trailer tongue weight, and the truck axle weights.

If your 35ft trailer is really only 7500lbs loaded with an 800lb tongue weight, it would certainly be on the very light end of a trailer that length loaded and ready to go.

Oh yes... What travel trailer do you have? 35 ft 7500 lbs seems light....

Oopps I found what you have...

http://www.nadaguides.com/RVs/2015/Palomino/M-317BHSK/6541723/Specs

6726 dry
625 hitch dry
cc 1766

What issues are you experiencing that give you concern?
Are you sure the distribution hitch is set up right?

X2 needs more tongue weight.

Then yes, better tires will do wonders.