This kinda thing can't help but keep fuel prices down.

my point was that it's not just the commute to/from work. it's all of the other things we do on the way to, from and sometimes during work breaks, lunch hours, etc. and then there are all of the things we do on days off that exceed the puny 20-mi range of a so called 'affordable EV'. no, an around-town EV is going to need a minimum range of 100-mi at full electrical load (lights, wipers, AC, radio, etc) and be affordable for the average Joe before it will be acceptable. govt can try and drive this down everyone's throat but innovation and the market place will determine when this will become a reality.

free radical wrote:

Future is electric get ready..
Tesla is worth more then GM now,,and plans to add 3 or 4 more giga
factories,so unless other automakers get into the game fast they will be left behind..
Btw Tesla is coming up with electric semi this year,,things will get interesting..

https://electrek.co

Correction.

Tesla's total stock is selling for more than GM's total stock. That is much different from "worth".

By any objective method, Tesla is a tiny fraction of GM's value and there are no signs of it changing any time soon.

Tesla is "coming up" with a lot of things but they never seem to "come up" with a profit.

rk911 wrote:


are you kidding me? people do a lot more driving than the average 15-mi one-way daily commute. grocery stores, music lessons, banking, dry cleaners, hardware stores, doctor visits, school activities, yadda, yadda, yadda. all of that adds up to way more than 20-mi per day. don't believe me...set your trip odometer to 0 and drive for a week. heck, I put 10-mi on the jeep just going round trip to the doc and 5-mi round trip going to the bank (yup, some folks still actually go to a bank...not everything can be done on line). a cheap daily go-to-work-and-run-around-town EV had better have a range of at least 100-miles, be able to sit at least 4 or 5-people and have adequate cargo room. maybe we'll get there....one day.

No I'm not kidding you.

51% of commutes are below 20 miles round trip based on FHWA studies. Bump that up to 30 miles round trip and you are at 70% of all commutes. That's 51% who would rarely start the gas engine and another 19% who will still get more than 2/3 of their miles under electricity.

If your employer has power stations available, that 20 mile range allows for a 40 mile round trip and almost 80% of commutes are 100% electric.

Yes, there are people who commute longer distances (I used to do 60 miles round trip). If you get to the extreme, it's not as good of an option but this is the beauty of the plug in hybrid. You can actually use all of the battery power and then supplement with the gas engine and when you do take those weekend road trips of a few hundred miles, you just switch over to gas mode without even thinking about it.

Looks like Britain just made the same move. Germany and Holland have already announced similar tentative moves but at earlier dates. Manufacturers are going to have to reassess their product lineups fast. Not to mention auto parts stores. Gas stations in Europe are already adapting with many bringing in Chademo and CCS stations. Interesting times.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40723581

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40723581

free radical wrote:

John & Angela wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jul/06/france-ban-petrol-diesel-cars-2040-emmanuel-macron-volvo

It will be interesting to see how this plays out across Europe and which auto manufacturers will step up to the plate or disappear.

Future is electric get ready..
Tesla is worth more then GM now,,and plans to add 3 or 4 more giga
factories,so unless other automakers get into the game fast they will be left behind..
Btw Tesla is coming up with electric semi this year,,things will get interesting..

https://electrek.co

Tesla is about ready to go belly up if they don't make a profit. In it's almost 15 years it made a profit in one quarter. All of the rest of the years it lost millions and millions of dollars every single year. Even a billionaire can't keep that up. Will Tesla make a profit in 2017? Doubtful

Remember when Enron was worth a lot too?

It's funny that a billionaire has to issue stock. Why not just own the company yourself and keep all of the profits?

Tesla better get a handle on quality issues or they are toast. How would you like to buy a 100 grand + piece of junk? :E

CR has them on the least reliable car list! :E

Here is how Tesla rates with their owners! :E

If the 3 is not a good car with out standing quality they will be done before you can say gigawatt! :B

John & Angela wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jul/06/france-ban-petrol-diesel-cars-2040-emmanuel-macron-volvo

It will be interesting to see how this plays out across Europe and which auto manufacturers will step up to the plate or disappear.

Future is electric get ready..
Tesla is worth more then GM now,,and plans to add 3 or 4 more giga
factories,so unless other automakers get into the game fast they will be left behind..
Btw Tesla is coming up with electric semi this year,,things will get interesting..

https://electrek.co

On range, and ti is typical of most of our neighbors, fifty miles to tow an more going to different points in town. Over 100 miles round trip.
Our Doctors 260 miles round trip. Then it has been in mid nineties each day with 50-60% humidity, so the ac has to run and wipers. In winter, anywhere from below zero, to 40 degrees so the hat has to run.
A car stereo the Ford is perhaps 100 watts. Mercedes, I don't know but perhaps, 800 watts, enough that with engine off it will shut off in 20 minutes to save battery. Driving at night headlights on Mercedes consume a heck of a lot. the Ford too but you can't see the car in front of you.
Average speed on highways 75-90 mph. In France perhaps they will cut it down to 30. Won't be any french cars on the German autobahn.
Run out of fuel/electricity half way to wherever in winter. A truck will have to ring a big generator. How long will it take?

On range, and ti is typical of most of our neighbors, fifty miles to tow an more going to different points in town. Over 100 miles round trip.
Our Doctors 260 miles round trip. Then it has been in mid nineties each day with 50-60% humidity, so the ac has to run and wipers. In winter, anywhere from below zero, to 40 degrees so the hat has to run.
A car stereo the Ford is perhaps 100 watts. Mercedes, I don't know but perhaps, 800 watts, enough that with engine off it will shut off in 20 minutes to save battery. Driving at night headlights on Mercedes consume a heck of a lot. the Ford too but you can't see the car in front of you.
Average speed on highways 75-90 mph. In France perhaps they will cut it down to 30. Won't be any french cars on the German autobahn.
Run out of fuel/electricity half way to wherever in winter. A truck will have to ring a big generator. How long will it take?

TragedyTrousers wrote:
Regarding Tesla,
https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=232262

AMEN AMEN AMEN!!!!!!!!!

rk911 wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

spoon059 wrote:

minnow wrote:
Interesting that GM is reportedly killing off the Volt, the only EV that runs on electricity generated from its internal combustion engine(after the initial battery charge is depleted).

I wonder why car companies haven't capitalized on this idea. Most trains are diesel electric... why aren't there more diesel electric cars that can generate electric power and store it to be used upon demand. Between a diesel engine running and regenerative braking it seems that a lot of power could be made and stored. I'm sure there is a reason, just curious...

Trains don't use diesel-electric due to efficiency. Direct drive would be more efficient. The problem is how do you build a mechanical transmission that can handle over 6,000hp and coordinate up to 6 engines on a single train. The electric motors are effectively acting as a transmission. It also makes coordination between multiple engines easy.

As far as the Volt, GM isn't killing it. It's just not a profitable vehicle. The media is hung up on range but it's not the issue. The issue is cost. EV's (yeah volt is technically a plug in hybrid) cost $10-20k more than they should. A Volt with a 20mile range and a $20k price tag would probably sell and you would likely see 80-90% of all miles done under electric power.

are you kidding me? people do a lot more driving than the average 15-mi one-way daily commute. grocery stores, music lessons, banking, dry cleaners, hardware stores, doctor visits, school activities, yadda, yadda, yadda. all of that adds up to way more than 20-mi per day. don't believe me...set your trip odometer to 0 and drive for a week. heck, I put 10-mi on the jeep just going round trip to the doc and 5-mi round trip going to the bank (yup, some folks still actually go to a bank...not everything can be done on line). a cheap daily go-to-work-and-run-around-town EV had better have a range of at least 100-miles, be able to sit at least 4 or 5-people and have adequate cargo room. maybe we'll get there....one day.

It's 18 miles one way for us to go shopping....and we live in a large neighborhood. And the one next to us......same. And the one on other side of roadway.....same
I'd venture that would easily include 300 households.....so not an isolated area.
Just that retail is 18 miles away
Ain't gonna be no short EV commuters out of this group :B