Forum Discussion
- Mr_Mark1ExplorerThis past March I had solar panels put on the house in the Southern California desert. The solar company put on 43 panels.
I received my June bill from Edison and it was $4 which is the cost of 'connection' to Edison. No charge for electricity. So far, I have not received an electric bill for April-June (beside the connection fee).
I told the solar people that I wanted enough panels if I decide in the future to get an electric car or two. The engineer said 'no problem'. If we generate more than we use, Edison will buy the electric back at a very reduced rate. So, the solar company tries to balance the house with just enough solar vs. over-producing.
The 30% TAX credit was a nice plus.
If and when the battery banks come down in price, I would consider going totally off of the grid. Our motorhome has Lithium Ion house batteries and I'm very please on the way they work and recharge. They can be rebuilt vs. replaced after the 10 yr. life expectancy.
Safe travels,
MM. - John___AngelaExplorer
Old-Biscuit wrote:
John & Angela wrote:
BC hydro estimates that if tomorrow morning every vehicle in BC was to magically turn into an electric vehicle the total grid requirement would go up 19 percent...well within the reserve of our grid.
How's that work come winter....?
When I worked for SCE (Southern California Edison) we ran power plants solely for transmission of power to BC thru the WECC.
We didn't need the power generated but had to operate them so BC had adequate power & reserves. (pollution localized for power usage far far away)
No idea. BC hydro has a web page with a good write up on EV's though. - Old-BiscuitExplorer III
John & Angela wrote:
BC hydro estimates that if tomorrow morning every vehicle in BC was to magically turn into an electric vehicle the total grid requirement would go up 19 percent...well within the reserve of our grid.
How's that work come winter....?
When I worked for SCE (Southern California Edison) we ran power plants solely for transmission of power to BC thru the WECC.
We didn't need the power generated but had to operate them so BC had adequate power & reserves. (pollution localized for power usage far far away) - John___AngelaExplorer
Terryallan wrote:
However. Are we willing to destroy the earth to have electric vehicles. From what I have been reading. A electric vehicle has a larger carbon foot print than a F150.
By the time they strip mine the battery material, ship it to China, Put it thru the many processes, and then ship it to a customer. You have a pretty big carbon footprint. In truth. Several of the mines have been closed because of the extreme air pollution they cause.
Not to say as time goes on. It won't get better. It will, but at this time. For most people. Electric is lose lose
Yah i think that refers to the manufacturing footprint. The cradle to grave emmisions of an electric vehicle are considerably less than gas vehicles. For what it's worth much of lithium for tesla batteries comes from the US and batteries built in North America will be built mostly from North American lithium. Some junk science report the lithium and cobalt used in batteries as "rare earth metals" which of course they are not. The other thing is, electric vehicles don't "burn" lithium. It is mined, and along with other materials is manufactured into a battery and then for the next 20 to 30 years is used and probably repurposed and then eventually Recycled. Yes there will be challenges but like anything else we have to walk before we run. - TerryallanExplorer IIHowever. Are we willing to destroy the earth to have electric vehicles. From what I have been reading. A electric vehicle has a larger carbon foot print than a F150.
By the time they strip mine the battery material, ship it to China, Put it thru the many processes, and then ship it to a customer. You have a pretty big carbon footprint. In truth. Several of the mines have been closed because of the extreme air pollution they cause.
Not to say as time goes on. It won't get better. It will, but at this time. For most people. Electric is lose lose - fj12ryderExplorer III
2oldman wrote:
Okay, now that's the funniest line I've read in years. :)fj12ryder wrote:
Europe doesn't have the kind of politicians we have here.
Shoot, a lot can happen in 23 years. And they can easily change their minds, I mean we are talking about politicians. - John___AngelaExplorer
rk911 wrote:
John & Angela,
The population of BC...British Columbia I presume...is 4.something million. That's the whole province. Metro Chicago where I reside has 9.something million and we're just the 3rd or 4th largest metro area. The entire population of Canada is maybe 10% of the US. Should all of the vehicles in the USA, nearly 260-million, magically become electric overnight...the hit to our grid would likely be a lot more than 19%. What may work on a smaller scale may not work so well on a larger scale.
Even if it was a similar bump to the grid...and who knows if your 19% figure is even accurate...there is still the matter of our lifestyle. The bad analogy for us is this: we dropped Pass Port America after 1-year because at the end of the day their parks weren't where we were and we didn't want to alter our travel plans just to save a few bucks. The point is Americans want to go where they want to go when they want to go the without being required to alter routes to buy fuel or to unnecessarily delay their trip. Imagine if it took 3-4 hours to fill your fuel tank or you had to drive way out of your intended route to get the gas. What sort of effect would that have on travel and business?
As for recycling the batteries...maybe they will, maybe they won't. America is currently buried under mountains of old tires so I can easily foresee mountains of old batteries. The average American keeps their car/light truck for about 10-years now which means those folks will likely experience at least one complete battery swap. And with the average American family owning 2.something cars that's going to be a huge expense. Most people don't save for anticipated large expenses so it will be interesting to see how that works out. The cost of new batteries might be at least be partially offset by not buying gas but you know the road tax will still be in place with a likely increase to offset the loss of fuel sales. The beast must be fed.
I'm going to be 67 in a few weeks. My 28-yr old nephew may see the day when the last gas dinosaur leaves the road but I likely will not. I still recall when T. Boone Pickens was promoting wind energy...it was all the rage, likely to replace nuclear and fossil within our lifetimes. That was just 10-years ago. The most recent figure I could find suggests that renewable energy accounts for just 15% of our supply. Nope, long way to go
I'm glad that you're enjoying your Leaf even with the required change to your lifestyle but for us...until charging stations are ubiquitous, the range of an electric vehicle is 400-miles at interstate speeds and it takes no longer than 15-20 minutes to completely charge a fully depleted battery then they just won't be practical.
Yah. Don't know much about American culture. I think it will work for a lot countries in the world though. And to some degree I'm sure your country will benefit from the technology as well. I've read before on this forum that the American grid is kind of "delicate" but I'm sure you guys will figure it out. I took a look at a map though and there is definetly some high penetration areas for EV's in the US. Mostly on the west coast. Some districts are north of 6 percent in 2016. Nothing like Norway at 40 percent but still, its obviously catching on in some places. I think sales growth for the US is something like 36 percent per year although that may go up a bit next year with the model 3 Tesla and the new leaf both scheduled for release in the next 2 months.
By the way, I'm still driving a diesel pusher so yah, it'll be awhile before we see fossil fuels dissapear in many roles.
Safe travels. - qtla9111NomadThanks for posting this John. I truly believe that France and many other countries will beat the 2040 deadline they are setting.
Many things to consider such as the use of clean nuclear energy which does exist but has not been used. Now that the old or current technology has taken a bad rap, the use of the word "nuclear" will send anyone or any country on a death spiral. Sad but we were cheap in the beginning and it has taken nuclear to where it is today.
The other very important thing is innovation. North America is far behind on this and I'm not sure what the motivating factor is or should be.
With that, we could see and we are seeing in many other countries such as China and the Musk movement rapid advancement in technology. We need to overcome the stigma of climate change and put fossil fuels aside. With the "old thinkers" they will want to continue to use coal and oil until it is used up and then look for some half-baked solution.
So what if climate change is not man-made (I believe at least part of it is)? Can't we think out of the box and want to live in a world that has clean air, water and a healthy (instead of dying) nature?
It also would bring certain freedoms but it's mostly held back by money and big business. - rk911ExplorerJohn & Angela,
The population of BC...British Columbia I presume...is 4.something million. That's the whole province. Metro Chicago where I reside has 9.something million and we're just the 3rd or 4th largest metro area. The entire population of Canada is maybe 10% of the US. Should all of the vehicles in the USA, nearly 260-million, magically become electric overnight...the hit to our grid would likely be a lot more than 19%. What may work on a smaller scale may not work so well on a larger scale.
Even if it was a similar bump to the grid...and who knows if your 19% figure is even accurate...there is still the matter of our lifestyle. The bad analogy for us is this: we dropped Pass Port America after 1-year because at the end of the day their parks weren't where we were and we didn't want to alter our travel plans just to save a few bucks. The point is Americans want to go where they want to go when they want to go the without being required to alter routes to buy fuel or to unnecessarily delay their trip. Imagine if it took 3-4 hours to fill your fuel tank or you had to drive way out of your intended route to get the gas. What sort of effect would that have on travel and business?
As for recycling the batteries...maybe they will, maybe they won't. America is currently buried under mountains of old tires so I can easily foresee mountains of old batteries. The average American keeps their car/light truck for about 10-years now which means those folks will likely experience at least one complete battery swap. And with the average American family owning 2.something cars that's going to be a huge expense. Most people don't save for anticipated large expenses so it will be interesting to see how that works out. The cost of new batteries might be at least be partially offset by not buying gas but you know the road tax will still be in place with a likely increase to offset the loss of fuel sales. The beast must be fed.
I'm going to be 67 in a few weeks. My 28-yr old nephew may see the day when the last gas dinosaur leaves the road but I likely will not. I still recall when T. Boone Pickens was promoting wind energy...it was all the rage, likely to replace nuclear and fossil within our lifetimes. That was just 10-years ago. The most recent figure I could find suggests that renewable energy accounts for just 15% of our supply. Nope, long way to go
I'm glad that you're enjoying your Leaf even with the required change to your lifestyle but for us...until charging stations are ubiquitous, the range of an electric vehicle is 400-miles at interstate speeds and it takes no longer than 15-20 minutes to completely charge a fully depleted battery then they just won't be practical. - 2oldmanExplorer II
fj12ryder wrote:
Europe doesn't have the kind of politicians we have here.
Shoot, a lot can happen in 23 years. And they can easily change their minds, I mean we are talking about politicians.
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