This kinda thing can't help but keep fuel prices down.

I don't know. Yah I think ev's will add to the grid load but not significantly. A north American EV on average uses about the same amount of power as an electric water heater. I can attest to that. We have two in our household and yes our power bill has gone up a bit. Right now it its about 109 bucks per month, maybe a little more because of our heatwave we have been having and the AC use in our town house. But already some are choosing to add solar to their house to offset the electric use. Some are doing stand alone systems just for charging. Below is a picture of a stand alone EV charger. It gathers and stores enough power to power 3 EV's on an average daily commute of 40 miles each...or one for 120 miles or whatever combination you like. Our commutes are shorter than that so we would have a net benefit that we could either share with neighbours or even power a circuit or two in the house. These are stand alone, not connected to the grid in any way, arrive on a truck and are set up in 5 to 10 minutes. It's not something we would do now because power is cheap and abundant where we are. But they are a neat solution to problematic situations. 35 grand though. But they will too get cheaper eventually. I guess my point is that yes there are problems but there are solutions being developed and more to come. I don't think EV's are for everyone, but take one for a test drive and you might be surprised how nice of a driving experience it is. And EV's are very easy to live with in terms of not dealing with oil changes, belts, hoses, exhaust systems, catalytic converters, oil spots on the driveway, smelly garages, you can pre warm and pre cool by iphone, no worries of overheating with the AC on in traffic jams, never going to a gas station, fueling (or charging) takes about 10 seconds twice a weak (Saturday night and Wednesday night for us)...or at least that's how long it takes to plug it in. We bought a jug of washer fluid two years ago, we are almost thru it so I'll have to buy another jug, but that's all the maintenance on two vehicles in two years. Obviously they don't replace a truck or 10 passenger van but for some of us they actually are a really nice transportation solution. We have lost almost no range so far. We'll see how it goes I guess but so far I would never go back to anything with a tail pipe...and this has nothing to do with being a "greenie", its just a better way for us.

spoon059 wrote:

minnow wrote:
Interesting that GM is reportedly killing off the Volt, the only EV that runs on electricity generated from its internal combustion engine(after the initial battery charge is depleted).

I wonder why car companies haven't capitalized on this idea. Most trains are diesel electric... why aren't there more diesel electric cars that can generate electric power and store it to be used upon demand. Between a diesel engine running and regenerative braking it seems that a lot of power could be made and stored. I'm sure there is a reason, just curious...

In a word: losses.

Gen-sets on trains have a lot of losses. They don't do it for efficiency. The only reason they do it is because it very easy to hook several engines together with one control panel.

Electric motors and batteries have to reject a lot of heat. That's why the Tesla uses a big cooling system to cool all of this heat off.

When you do it with a small car you can get away with it. They only use a hand full of HP to drive down the road. Try that with a truck and trailer that takes around 100 to 125 HP just to drive down the road at 60 MPH. Not going to happen. At least with the batteries they have now. They don't have enough energy density.

Here is a fact for you:

•Generating electricity, we lost 22 quadrillion Btu from coal, natural gas, nuclear and petroleum power plants in 2013 in the U.S. – that’s more than the energy in all the gasoline we use in a given year.
•Moving electricity from plants to homes and businesses on the transmission and distribution grid, we lost 69 trillion Btu in 2013 – that’s about how much energy Americans use drying our clothes every year.

Link

And yet people think electric tow vehicles are going to happen even though there is tons of losses with the electrical system. :R

It is typical sleigh of hand. The Greenies don't want internal combustion engines.
Some of them are smart enough electricity is not free.
The net cost of energy conversion is higher than using gas and diesel.
They say wow no high fuel taxes.....well they won't wait too long to see those fuel taxes replaced by others. They use fuel taxes as social adjustment funds, funding everything plus roads. Then there is the high cost of battery replacements.
Can you imagine the drain on the electric grid, if all the French that must use vehicles to commute plug in when they get to work and when they get home?
Lots more electric generation is going to be called for at huge costs.
Those that live in the north of France, in winter are going to be wearing heavy coats, and those in the south won't be using the vehicle's ac.
Those French that live in cities and those who live and work in the little towns won't have too much complaint until the make up cost for lost fuel taxes hit them.
Until scientist can come up with no net loss, in energy conversion, and cheap and safe storage of electrical energy electric vehicles are not an alternative.
If you are prepared for huge extra cost and inconvenience and danger. go for it.
The amount of energy in a 19 gallon tank, in an electrical storage battery, makes for a very big potential bomb, currently.

spoon059 wrote:
Then why electric vehicles and traditional hybrids?

I have no idea.

Once electric vehicles start paying their share of road taxes that overly burdens fueled vehicle owners, there will be a sudden shift in "green" vehicles.

Right now it means gov't-subsidized roads and transportation costs (or "other drivers'-subsidized, somebody has to pay for roads)

But free-lunch doesn't last forever and electricity prices have already started to rise significantly and are poised to double (again) in the next few years.

When solar-vehicles were supposed to be the electric vehicle of the future, it was a good idea. Solar generation costs, battery weight and storage, short driving distances, and that pesky 50% of darkness thing, LOL.

Still a nice dream, but I don't see the reality of it.

Do you all remember when California passed a resolution to have "Flying Cars" by such and such date to alleviate the traffic congestion?

2oldman wrote:

spoon059 wrote:
why aren't there more diesel electric cars that can generate electric power and store it to be used upon demand.

Cost, availability of cheap gas, and our lack of foresight.

Then why electric vehicles and traditional hybrids?

minnow wrote:
Interesting that GM is reportedly killing off the Volt, the only EV that runs on electricity generated from its internal combustion engine(after the initial battery charge is depleted). One if the biggedt criticisms of EV's is lack of range and getting stuck on the side of a road. The Volt addressed that but still never caught in. Sales have fallen off like a rock. Ev's may be all the rage is socialist leaning countries but apparently not so much here.

But i'll keep the EV in the back of my head if I ever decide to move to France or even BC.

GM is putting the Volt drivetrain in an SUV format. The north American market is strong for SUV's but less so for cars. And the volt is also not considered an electric car but rather a hybrid.

How one can link socialism to EV's I have no idea but I would be interested in the thought process behind it. Most of the EV drivers I know are not particularly environmentally driven. Most of us like peppy, good handling, quiet, well appointed cars that are inexpensive to run. The Tesla bunch obviously like high end cars and the S and X are direct replacements for BMW's and Mercedes. Many Tesla owners were previously beamer and benz owners. Taking a Tesla S for a test drive is an eye opening experience.

Oh and coincidentally (or maybe not) I am a socialist (or at least the Canadian equivalent of one whatever that is) so I am legitimately curious how you made the connection.

Cheers

minnow wrote:
Interesting that GM is reportedly killing off the Volt, the only EV that runs on electricity generated from its internal combustion engine(after the initial battery charge is depleted). One if the biggedt criticisms of EV's is lack of range and getting stuck on the side of a road. The Volt addressed that but still never caught in. Sales have fallen off like a rock. Ev's may be all the rage is socialist leaning countries but apparently not so much here.

But i'll keep the EV in the back of my head if I ever decide to move to France or even BC.

We thought about a Volt. But when we went to check one out we said forget it.
Of all the dumb designs, the back seat is bucket seats. Very limiting in use.
Deal breaker for us.

spoon059 wrote:
why aren't there more diesel electric cars that can generate electric power and store it to be used upon demand.

Cost, availability of cheap gas, and our lack of foresight.

minnow wrote:
Interesting that GM is reportedly killing off the Volt, the only EV that runs on electricity generated from its internal combustion engine(after the initial battery charge is depleted).

I wonder why car companies haven't capitalized on this idea. Most trains are diesel electric... why aren't there more diesel electric cars that can generate electric power and store it to be used upon demand. Between a diesel engine running and regenerative braking it seems that a lot of power could be made and stored. I'm sure there is a reason, just curious...