tow question

plasticmaster wrote:
The brochure for my current Jayco Jayflight states a dry hitch weight of 745#. The brochure for the Jayco Jayflight I'm considering states a dry hitch weight of 855#. Am I correct in saying that the one I'm considering is 110# heavier on the hitch since they're both loaded with twin 30# propane bottles and a battery? The hitch weight difference would be roughly 110#, correct?

Yes, if you're talking about dry hitch weight, the difference would be roughly 110#.

However, you really need to be concerned about loaded tongue weight.
The difference in loaded tongue weight probably will be more than 110#.

For adequate sway stability, the loaded tongue weight for the new TT should be about 13% of the TT's total loaded weight.
If you load the new TT to 8000#, 8500#, or 9000#, the tongue weight should be about 1040#, 1105#, or 1170# respectively.

IOW, depending on how you load the TT, you could come close to exceeding the receiver's tongue weight limit of 1200#.
However, the TV's payload capacity is a bigger concern.

Assuming the WDH transfers a load equal to 20% of tongue weight to the TT's axles, the vertical load added to the hitch would range from about 830# to about 940#.
Assuming the WDH weighs 100#, the vertical load added to the TV's receiver would range from about 930# to about 1040#.

Given your TV's "payload" of 1638#, the total weight of TV occupants and cargo would be limited to about 600-700# if the new TT was loaded to 8000-9000#.

Ron

The brochure for my current Jayco Jayflight states a dry hitch weight of 745#. The brochure for the Jayco Jayflight I'm considering states a dry hitch weight of 855#. Am I correct in saying that the one I'm considering is 110# heavier on the hitch since they're both loaded with twin 30# propane bottles and a battery? The hitch weight difference would be roughly 110#, correct?

LarryJM wrote:
I disagree with Ron's calculation of tongue wt allowed by subtracting the amount of dead tongue wt (i.e. TW measured on something like a Sherline TW scale) that will be redistributed to the TT axles. IMO the TW limit specified for either the vehicle or the receiver using a WDH is not just what is applied to the TV, but the total dead tongue wt.

Larry, you need to read what I wrote.

I did not say anything about the "tongue weight", as referred to by the vehicle or receiver specs, being reduced by the amount of load transferred to the TT's axles.

I did imply that the vertical load imposed on the hitch would be equal to the TT's tongue weight minus the amount of load transferred to the TT's axles.
This can be validated by proper before and after weighings of the TV and TT axle loads.

Ron

plasticmaster wrote:
Thanks for the replies so far. I'll try to fill in the missing info.

The sticker inside my truck door says "Combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed 1638#". My truck is a 2014 Silverado 1500 Crew Cab, 2WD, standard bed, with 5.3L V8 and 3.42 gear ratio. The truck owners manual states a 9700# tow capacity for this setup. The truck is equipped with tow package and factory brake controller. The underside of the receiver tube on the truck states a 1200# max tongue weight.

The specs for the possible new camper says UVW 6935#, GVWR 9500#, and dry hitch weight 855#.

My current camper sticker says UVW 5326# and GVWR 7500#. It doesn't give the dry hitch weight, but 12% of the UVW would be 640#.

Typical trips are me, my wife, and 2 kids with bicycles, firewood, cooler, etc. in bed of truck. Tanks in the camper are always empty. Please let me know if I've left anything out.

Buy the firewood after you get to the campground; put the bicycles and cooler inside the camper (preferably over the axles) and you got more payload left over for tongue weight. But even doing that, I still don't think the math works out.

Ron Gratz wrote:

plasticmaster wrote:
The sticker inside my truck door says "Combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed 1638#".

The specs for the possible new camper says UVW 6935#, GVWR 9500#, and dry hitch weight 855#.

Typical trips are me, my wife, and 2 kids with bicycles, firewood, cooler, etc. in bed of truck. Tanks in the camper are always empty. Please let me know if I've left anything out.

The "payload" value of 1638# is your controlling factor.

Your best estimate of the total weight of occupants and cargo (including the weight of a WDH) must be subtracted from the 1638#.
The remainder is the maximum allowable vertical load which the TT can impose on the hitch.

The load imposed on the hitch is equal to the TT's loaded tongue weight minus the amount of load transferred to the TT's axles by the WDH.
This transferred load might be equal to about 20% of the tongue weight.

You'll have to do the estimating and the calculating.
For example, lets assume the total weight of you, your wife, 2 kids with bicycles, firewood, cooler, WDH, etc. amounts to 938#.
You then are limited to a vertical load of 1638-938 = 700# carried on the hitch.
The maximum allowable tongue weight would be 700/0.8 = 875# (assuming load equal to 20% of TW is transferred to TT axles).

Assuming a TW% of 13% means the maximum allowable loaded TT weight would be 875/0.13 = 6730#.
Unfortunately, your possible new camper has an empty weight of 6935#.
Your current TT, when loaded and with WD applied, probably comes close to exerting a vertical load of 700# on the hitch.

You might want to consider loading your TV and TT as they would be loaded for camping and taking them to a scales to find out how close you are to the TV's GVWR with your current TT.

Ron

I disagree with Ron's calculation of tongue wt allowed by subtracting the amount of dead tongue wt (i.e. TW measured on something like a Sherline TW scale) that will be redistributed to the TT axles. IMO the TW limit specified for either the vehicle or the receiver using a WDH is not just what is applied to the TV, but the total dead tongue wt.

Of course I also believe that the wt. of the WDH system along with any cargo added after the WDH system has been initially set up should also go against the TW specified limits for both the vehicle and the receiver. This view has varying supporters and non supporters with IMO no clear universally agreed to standard.

Larry

plasticmaster wrote:
The sticker inside my truck door says "Combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed 1638#".

The specs for the possible new camper says UVW 6935#, GVWR 9500#, and dry hitch weight 855#.

Typical trips are me, my wife, and 2 kids with bicycles, firewood, cooler, etc. in bed of truck. Tanks in the camper are always empty. Please let me know if I've left anything out.

The "payload" value of 1638# is your controlling factor.

Your best estimate of the total weight of occupants and cargo (including the weight of a WDH) must be subtracted from the 1638#.
The remainder is the maximum allowable vertical load which the TT can impose on the hitch.

The load imposed on the hitch is equal to the TT's loaded tongue weight minus the amount of load transferred to the TT's axles by the WDH.
This transferred load might be equal to about 20% of the tongue weight.

You'll have to do the estimating and the calculating.
For example, lets assume the total weight of you, your wife, 2 kids with bicycles, firewood, cooler, WDH, etc. amounts to 938#.
You then are limited to a vertical load of 1638-938 = 700# carried on the hitch.
The maximum allowable tongue weight would be 700/0.8 = 875# (assuming load equal to 20% of TW is transferred to TT axles).

Assuming a TW% of 13% means the maximum allowable loaded TT weight would be 875/0.13 = 6730#.
Unfortunately, your possible new camper has an empty weight of 6935#.
Your current TT, when loaded and with WD applied, probably comes close to exerting a vertical load of 700# on the hitch.

You might want to consider loading your TV and TT as they would be loaded for camping and taking them to a scales to find out how close you are to the TV's GVWR with your current TT.

Ron

Here's a neat little calculator that helped me out when I was making my decision.

http://changingears.com/rv-sec-calc-trailer-weight-tt.shtml

x2 what BenK said. Like I said in my post, the only person who can make this decision is you. The numbers are what the numbers are. How critical one views the numbers is strictly your choice.

The bottom line, IMHO is, if you are looking for input that justifies you keeping your current truck, there are folks who will give you that info. If you want to justify buying a new truck, or sticking with your current trailer, there is an equal number of folks who can give you ammo to justify that decision.

At the end of the day, your family, your safety, your comfort, your decision. Based on the numbers you provided, and doing the math, you will likely exceed your payload... period. And, based on my experience with virtually the same truck, with virtually the same payload, you will not like the experience towing heavier than 6800lbs loaded (which is where I am at). I wouldn't do it personally.

Mike

Better, but still not enough info. Please post the TV's GVWR, front & rear GAWR
and if you can find it...the TV's GCWR

The generic ratings formula still applies:

GCWR => TV + Trailer + hitch + everything loaded on/in the setup

If you are looking for 'sure you can' stuff...I'm not the one. I'll only provide
the metrics for newbies to figure it out for themselves...as only one person
is responsible for the setup and that is the driver.

You will get tons of 'sure you can' and 'have been doing it for decades with
no issues'...but they do not have any skin in the game...nor will they pay for
anything that burns up, wears out sooner, etc

They will also call me "The Weight Police", but there is no policing
on these freebie forums. The advice is worth the price you paid...and
I'll gladly take that moniker...as they don't like to hear it...so disparage it
with that name calling

Very few vehicles will be under all its ratings (GVWR, GAWR, receiver for examples) while towing an RV at its tow rating. That's why it's difficult to judge. 7k dry for a 2007.5+ GM 2500HD should be comfortable. 7k dry for a 2009+ Ram 1500 is not likely going to be comfortable, despite having potentially similar tow ratings.