Why JEEP?

cjoseph wrote:

Great point about resale. When we were shopping, I really wanted to go a couple years old, mainly because we were going to tow it behind a MH. The thought of drilling holes and bolting accessaries on to a new vehicle worried me.

When I started shopping, I couldn't believe the used prices. Bought new.

This is long and I apologize in advance...

When we bought our 1993 motor home in 2011 we decided that we would like to explore back-country trails on our mountain bikes but wanted something rugged to get our MTBs to decent riding trails. Our RV just has a Cummins 5.9B diesel with 230 stock horsepower. Even with Banks on it we aren't in a position to pull much more than 3500 pounds so I wanted a light vehicle that was 4wd.

I originally started looking for a CJ Jeep (earlier model) which were priced around $4k but I discovered that I didn't fit behind the steering wheel of any CJ. So I began haunting the craigslist ads for a 1990s Wrangler. Like cjoseph, the prices seemed high. Partly because many of these Wranglers are heavily modified with locking differentials (air lockers which are expensive to buy and install and require an air compressor but allow the Jeep to have greatly increased traction; especially when one tire is off the ground in rocky areas); and partly because they are popular and off-roading is a big deal.

My 1999 "TJ" (Jeeps are identified by an arcane system of body styles that I have not entirely deciphered yet) was advertised on CL at $4,000 and was 120 miles away from me. I called the seller and was told that prospective buyer was going to look at it that morning. A TJ at $4k was a very good deal and I figured the other buyer would snap it up but when I called a bit later the seller reported that he had thought the Jeep was "too rough" for him and passed.

I loaded the DW up and made a bee-line for the seller. He was starting a welding/cutting business and had set up his own CNC cutting bed in his farm shop. The TJ was modified with more tubing in the roll cage and he had fabricated a rock bumper, rock sliders and a stiffer rear bumper and it was lifted 4-inches and had 33-inch tires. It was rough, though, but since I planned to use it as a Wrangler might be used (little realizing just how scary that could be at the time) I handed him $4,000 in cash and got a receipt and drove it home.

The state of WA is less than accepting of "bills of sale" (for obvious reasons in a sales tax state) and wanted me to pay sales tax on $7500 which was their idea of what the Jeep should have sold for. I managed - with the help of a friendly vehicle registration clerk - to find an online valuation of $4500 ($500 MORE than I had actually paid for the vehicle) and I forked over the money.

The DW and I owned a 125 acre farm/orchard for 20 years and we have had many 4-wheel-drive vehicles including pickup trucks, Dodge Ramchargers, Suzuki Samurais, tractors, and one Polaris diesel ATV so I thought I knew the capabilities of 4wd. So when the DW went to a quilting clinic over Father's Day weekend in 2013 I arranged to join a group of hard-core Wheelers in the Cascade Mountains above Liberty, WA. They assured me that the trails they'd take me on were "easy".

And, to them, those trails were probably easy. But to me navigating over huge roots, through deep puddles and creeks, up and down 30-degree slopes, over and around boulders and all with tight turns I was scared spitless and soon was "tail end charlie" in the group. Several times I thought I had lost them but then one or another would appear above me and point left or right to help me over one or another obstacle and I'd move ahead and up.

That little 4-cyl Wrangler never left first gear, low range for two hours on that trail. Going down was mostly an exercise in keeping my foot off the brake because I was pretty sure the Jeep would just start sliding. Those 33-inch tires did the job though. When we came out onto what I might have thought was a rough Forest Service dirt road that morning I felt like I had made it to a freeway!!

From then on, in deep loose sand, on steep rocky hillside trails, and pretty much anything in between I have just pointed that little Wrangler in the direction I wanted to go and it took me there. Plus it would drive me back home afterwards. The only downside was that the 33-inch tires pulled my motor home's mpg down to 9 mpg so I bought road tires mounted on their own wheels (from a guy who had just converted to 35-inch tires on his Jeep) and I just swap 'em out. So far those tires work fine except they're not as floaty in deep sand. I'm not planning to hit the trails above Liberty again, anyway. :P

Sorry for the length. But if you think you understand what a Jeep Wrangler will do, you're probably in for a surprise. Do a search for "one car too far" on YouTube and you'll see what I mean. :)

But on the freeway they can be noisy, rough riding, noisy, cramped and noisy. (Did I mention noisy?) With the 33-inch tires my Wrangler will barely do 65mph. The steering feels quick and the faster you go the quicker it feels. (A 90-degree corner takes 1/2 rotation of my steering wheel.)My first 60 miles were with both hands on the wheel wondering if I dared turn on the radio (it didn't matter since I couldn't hear the radio anyway). It had a soft top and soft door-tops (no roll-up windows; plastic unzip windows instead). I found (again on CL) new uppers for the doors with sliding glass windows and that was a lot better. I can go from the sliding glass to the plastic uppers just by lifting out the door top putting in the other. Or just leave it out. On hot days I lift both driver and passenger upper doors out and lay them in the back (I've removed the back seat) or leave them home.

If I want hard doors with roll-up windows I can just buy them and put them on. If I want a hard top I can do the same thing. Some people I know change back and forth in the spring and fall. If I wanted a snorkle to let me drive down rivers I can buy one. I can get a safe for my valuables, stronger suspension, new differentials and axles, higher lifts and bigger wheels and tires. I can buy better seats and 5-way seat belts. Heck I can (and I have) weld on it.

Sure, you can buy fancy Wranglers with air conditioning, two cup holders (mine has only one cup holder - but I can buy aftermarket center consoles with two), winches (I put one on from Harbor Freight for $300) and the like but it will be more than the 3500 pounds mine weighs. And my DP barely knows it's there (until I put 33-inch tires back on). And, surprisingly enough, even those girly Wranglers that you can hear the radio in will go anywhere, too. :D

They're not for everyone, though and, as always, your mileage will vary.

WDR

MPond wrote:

wa_desert_rat wrote:

aerbus32 wrote:
Well . . .
Our previous dinghy was a Grand Cherokee Overland. All the bells & whistles. Off-road vehicle of the year when I bought it.,,

(snip)

... We now tow a 4wd Honda CR-V. This soft road vehicle will not go where my Jeep could, but it takes me anywhere I ever go. Bumping 75k with not a single issue. And resale? Compare the two.

For my area, craigslist prices for a 1999 Honda CRV $3500 with highest price $5,000. (example:

http://spokane.craigslist.org/ctd/4745972945.html)

For a 1999 Jeep Wrangler average pricing is $6,000. With a high of $9500 (example:

http://lewiston.craigslist.org/ctd/4756979346.html)

However, in fairness, the 1999 Grand Cherokee that showed up in my search was $3999. :)

If you never go where you need to get there in a Jeep Wrangler then I can see buying a CRV. But I've had my Wrangler where I was pretty sure someone would have to helicopter me out and it got me back. We were kinda dirty, though.


WDR

Wranglers hold their resale value like no other! Definitely a vehicle that has a specific niche.

And they will take you places you never though you could go, and bring you back safely.

Not knocking other Jeep models, but there is a reason the Wrangler has such a strong following, both as a toad and as a 4x4.

Great point about resale. When we were shopping, I really wanted to go a couple years old, mainly because we were going to tow it behind a MH. The thought of drilling holes and bolting accessaries on to a new vehicle worried me.

When I started shopping, I couldn't believe the used prices. Bought new.

wa_desert_rat wrote:

aerbus32 wrote:
Well . . .
Our previous dinghy was a Grand Cherokee Overland. All the bells & whistles. Off-road vehicle of the year when I bought it.,,

(snip)

... We now tow a 4wd Honda CR-V. This soft road vehicle will not go where my Jeep could, but it takes me anywhere I ever go. Bumping 75k with not a single issue. And resale? Compare the two.

For my area, craigslist prices for a 1999 Honda CRV $3500 with highest price $5,000. (example:

http://spokane.craigslist.org/ctd/4745972945.html)

For a 1999 Jeep Wrangler average pricing is $6,000. With a high of $9500 (example:

http://lewiston.craigslist.org/ctd/4756979346.html)

However, in fairness, the 1999 Grand Cherokee that showed up in my search was $3999. :)

If you never go where you need to get there in a Jeep Wrangler then I can see buying a CRV. But I've had my Wrangler where I was pretty sure someone would have to helicopter me out and it got me back. We were kinda dirty, though.


WDR

Wranglers hold their resale value like no other! Definitely a vehicle that has a specific niche.

And they will take you places you never though you could go, and bring you back safely.

Not knocking other Jeep models, but there is a reason the Wrangler has such a strong following, both as a toad and as a 4x4.

aerbus32 wrote:
Well . . .
Our previous dinghy was a Grand Cherokee Overland. All the bells & whistles. Off-road vehicle of the year when I bought it.,,

(snip)

... We now tow a 4wd Honda CR-V. This soft road vehicle will not go where my Jeep could, but it takes me anywhere I ever go. Bumping 75k with not a single issue. And resale? Compare the two.

For my area, craigslist prices for a 1999 Honda CRV $3500 with highest price $5,000. (example:

http://spokane.craigslist.org/ctd/4745972945.html)

For a 1999 Jeep Wrangler average pricing is $6,000. With a high of $9500 (example:

http://lewiston.craigslist.org/ctd/4756979346.html)

However, in fairness, the 1999 Grand Cherokee that showed up in my search was $3999. :)

If you never go where you need to get there in a Jeep Wrangler then I can see buying a CRV. But I've had my Wrangler where I was pretty sure someone would have to helicopter me out and it got me back. We were kinda dirty, though.


WDR

Our Jeep Liberty is 10 years old with 175,000 miles on it. It's done some tough trails and all of the Silverton, CO area. It's only had routine maintenance of oil changes and tires and runs like a dream.

Well . . .
Our previous dinghy was a Grand Cherokee Overland. All the bells & whistles. Off-road vehicle of the year when I bought it. Reliability was a huge issue. Heater went out within the first two years. Had to rebuild the entire full-time 4wd system. After about 60k miles, it started blowing thru O2 sensors whenever I let it idle for more than two or three minutes on a launch ramp. (I also used it to tow a 21' Sea Ray.). Good thing a very good friend was the service manager of a local dealership. Look at the reliability ratings for Jeeps. We now tow a 4wd Honda CR-V. This soft road vehicle will not go where my Jeep could, but it takes me anywhere I ever go. Bumping 75k with not a single issue. And resale? Compare the two.

MPond, I went up over Engineer pass twice this past June. Once went over to Lake City. Second time I went back to Animas Forks and took the road back to Ouray. That road was quite a thrilling ride to say the least.

Because after setting up camp, a Jeep will take you to see places like this:

1. Light weight. Our 1999 2-door, soft-top Wrangler 4-cyl weighs about 3300 pounds. This is with extra roll bars, off-road bumpers, winch, rock sliders under the doors, and some underbody protection.

2. Truly versatile. Amazingly so, in fact. You can mutate a Jeep - even an old Jeep - into practically any type of vehicle. Gives the word "convertible" an entirely new meaning. You can go from hard top to soft top to no top to half-a-top. You can go from daily driver to oversized rock crawler. Mine has 33" tires and is "lifted" (raised for more clearance) but I also have standard wheels and tires on it; I just swap 'em out when I need to.

3. I tow mine with a $79 Harbor Freight tow bar. The bumper on my Jeep is an offroad bumper securely attached to the frame so I had a shop weld the bar attachments to the front of the bumper. Between the lifted Jeep and the standard ball hitch on the motor home I have a straight shot. We use a brake-buddy.

4. Reasonable fuel mileage. I get about 21mpg in mine. Not great but not terrible either.

5. Narrow width. This is an advantage on mountain trils but it's also, oddly enough, a big advantage as a towed vehicle because it stays within the footprint of our RV.

6. Every state lets us drive on the road with it. Unlike ATVs.

7. Standarized parts. And after-market parts that has to be experienced to be believed.

8. A decent heater. I was tooling around in some sand dunes one cool fall afternoon and met a couple with a "sand rail" who were loading their vehicle onto its trailer and going home. It got too cold for her and she had stopped having fun. I just turned my heater up and poured another cup of coffee from my thermos.

9. The 13-year-old girl in our family thinks it's "cool" and when I pick her up from her middle school she waves at her friends. In the Kia Optima she hides from them. :P

WDR

I will add:


SOFT TOP!

Nothing more fun at the beach.