/ CHARGING RATE

Of course....

You can let the generator ---- ---, and the Honda dealership that sells you a replacement will love you for it. Not to mention people with robes and turbans.

It's a 100 dollar battery versus a five hundred dollar generator and four hundred dollars in fuel. Yes, I count tires engines and the whole schmear needed to fetch more fuel. Let's break camp, go get gas and continue to mollycoddle a nickle and dime battery!

pnichols wrote:
Of course generators take less fuel when powering smaller chargers, which raises a question:

For any given generator - what is the ideal load to place on it (i.e. what size RV battery charger) for maximum fuel usage efficiency?

I doubt this will affect the need of getting a proper charger for that generator. The OP is drawing 70W from 1000W generator. Fuel consumption of Honda - from the memory - drops less than 2 times when load drops 2 times from 1000W to 500W (which 500W is about where the OP should aim at).

Now, I don't know if anybody measured fuel consumption at 70W load, but it is very unlikely that reducing the load 7 times (i.e. from 500W to 70W) would reduce fuel consumption by more than 7 times. There is no fuel economy in running it all day at 6A/70W. Not to mention that the battery often times won't be full after charging it all day long at 6A. I would rather pay MORE, only to avoid having to listen and breath in the fumes all day.

tenbear wrote:
The only thing I would question in Kendall's post is using the PD9245 converter. If you have the Magnetek/Parallax converter and choose to replace it for convenience by a PD converter. The PD4645 might be a better choice since the 9245 is larger than the Parallax and the 4600 series is designed as a replacement for the Parallax and might be a better fit physically.

Agreed. The OEM converter space needs to be measured if he wants to go this route. I did use the phrase, "...if it fits" in my post. However, it's good that you stated the next best option if it doesn't. And if he's not very tech savvy, it still may be the best option.

I also like the IOTA idea. The only negative would be if the cabling is poor; in which case it will not remain at 14.8 long enough to accomplish much. Higher voltage works best in the absorption stage. Dropping out of "boost" too early will not do much to top the bank, but that's not the aim here. The aim is generally to get to 90% or so while camping and then top at home or on the way home.

With poor cabling, the difference to 90% between the IOTA and PD has shown to be pretty marginal. The hare starts out faster, but the tortoise often catches up as you near 90%.

IOTAs are really good for solar guys, though. You can get to, say, 80%... a little faster in the morning, shut down the genny and enjoy the peace tranquility of the sun finishing the job.

The 9260 is spec-ed at 1000 watts. There is going to be loss in the conversion.

As far as a 9280 goes, yes... with mediocre, OEM cabling, the resistance will likely drive up the voltage read at the converter and will quickly cause it to ramp down its output. I would bet this is what wa8yxm experienced.

However... I wouldn't plan my system based on this idea.

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
I'll preach this again. The difference between someone who boondocks for weeks on end is a different universe than for an RV'er who goes for the weekend, then returns and plugs into shore power and checks off things on a calendar while dreaming about camping for the rest of the year.

Mex .... this is one of your wisest statements ever. ;)

That almost describes us .... except for we "go off for a week or two" instead of a "weekend".

We use a Honda EX650 (ultra quiet generator) simultaneously powering both the Parallax 7345 fixed voltage RV converter and a 25+ year-old Sears 2/10/50 charger (the Sears is alligator-clipped to the coach batteries in a special way) to charge our two 100 amp hour coach AGM batteries. I set the Sears charger to it's 50 amp "car starting" boost mode so that it tries to output at a voltage enough higher than the converter's so that it actually does add current to that also being supplied from the converter. With the Sears set to it's 50 amp car starting mode it adds about 5 more amps to that being supplied by the converter.

Using the converter plus Sears charger (both powered from the Honda) pumps initially about 12-13 amps into the 200 amp hour battery bank and is far from over-loading the little 550 VA Honda that's purring along at only a 54dB low frequency noise level. The Honda empties it's 0.51 gallon tank in about 5 hours of this. Using this method about every 3rd day in the sun, in the shade, in the rain, or at night keeps us drycamping for a week or two.

P.S. I actually got the idea to try adding the ancient little Sears portable charger into the mix from some comments you made on the forum a long time ago. :C

Are any or all of the mentioned "converters" totally transformerless?

Pure switching power supplies?

It is a more important to resolve issue with a generator than connected to shore power.

Question # 2

For what length of time, how many days a year does the OP boondock?


I'll preach this again. The difference between someone who boondocks for weeks on end is a different universe than for an RV'er who goes for the weekend, then returns and plugs into shore power and checks off things on a calendar while dreaming about camping for the rest of the year.

My Kubota costs around six thousand dollars plus shipping. When I start it and after it warms up, it grunts. I don't pay it to sit around and B.S.

C10 charging is superb, highly recommended for the weekender. But then it's a foolish, brown technology, expensive and frankly less than brilliant way to recharge batteries when a person is off-grid for extended periods of time.

When I argue with people who write incomplete battery maintenance recommendations, print them as gospel, and then think they have done everyone a great service, I win the argument. I have so many "But I did not intend it that way" or worse "You are talking about a limited market, percentage wise, few RV'ers boondock" or the best answer "RV? I was talking about off-grid solar" memories it isn't funny.

A mediocre engineer chooses a solution based on achieving HIS objective. His objective may be valid. But when that engineer does not DEFINE the parameters of how he arrived at that objective, his printed "Expert Instructions" he is remiss. Actually, he is lazy and should not percolate into a position to make invalid "truisms". This "crap" I read about "ideal" C10, C20, or C whatever charge rates never includes caveats about WHEN AND WHERE those rates prove to be superior to any other protocol. Most of the "crap" I read is rote. The site, the company did not and will not talk to a genuine engineer for years. It is pure rote. When you discuss factoids with anyone peddling merchandise with regard to the manufacturer's protocol, email or telephone them. Ask a specific question:

"When you arrived at your battery maintenance information, how, exactly and precisely did you obtain your information for charging protocol?" If they reply ENGINEER. It isn't good enough. Is the engineer a specialist with lead acid batteries? Did the engineer review and approve the OEM's battery maintenance manual information?

-I Have Growled-

tenbear wrote:
A PD 9260 may be too much for the EU 1000. 60 A at 14.4v is 864 watts and that doesn't include any losses due to the inefficiency of the converter.

Well I ran a 9180 with wizard on a true 1,000.. I thought he said 2000 though. If all he has is a 1000. then a 9240 or 45.

Went back, re-read O/P.. Yup, it's a 1,000, so the 9245 is the way to go, that will not overload a 1000 and it will do a very good job of charging the batteries.

As someone said, replace the on-board converter's guts with teh 9245.. Or you can use it as an "External" converter.

Heck, it can even help jump start cars.. Just hook it up for like 5-10 mintues and a car with dead battery may well be ready to run.

The only thing I would question in Kendall's post is using the PD9245 converter. If you have the Magnetek/Parallax converter and choose to replace it for convenience by a PD converter. The PD4645 might be a better choice since the 9245 is larger than the Parallax and the 4600 series is designed as a replacement for the Parallax and might be a better fit physically.

NinerBikes wrote:
Been there, done that, with the Honda Eu1000I generator, which in your case, is the limiting power factor here, the weakest link.

You really need 14.8 volts, period. The Progressive Dynamics 9245 at 45 amps, runs fine on the Honda EU1000i, but it runs to 14.4V with the pendulum added. It's amps drop off quickly, but it will make the little Honda work pretty hard up front, so warm the generator up first, before plugging it in and running it in regular mode for a bit before plugging in the charge controller.

A better option would be the Iota DLS30 with the IQ4 smart controller, which will give you 14.8 Volts in bulk mode.
No matter how you slice it, when you are running on a generator, to a limit, about 14.8 to 15V.... Voltage with a modicum of amps pushed behind it, is what it takes to save generator run time, without overloading the generator.

Before you go spending money on a new (gotta have this brand X or you are living in the stone ages)converter, buy yourself a good DC clamp on meter and measure your charging current with the converter. I have a single SCS 200 GR27 Trojan battery and run my EU1000 for about 3-4 hours every morning. It is run in econo mode when I first plug the trailer into the generator the generator speeds up some but before long the engine sound has tapered off as it sips fuel. The initial charging current for the single battery is typically 10-12 A and I let it charge until it gets below 3A. We dry camp for about 8-10 days using this technique when we are in the Smokies. We use about 2 gal. of fuel. Is it the absolute fastest? No. Does it meet our needs? Absolutely. We have been doing this for years and it works well. Our first trailer (Casita)had an old style converter that hummed and made the lights flicker when connected to ac power but I used the same technique even then. Our current trailer has the dreaded (per this forum) WFCO converter and it never goes into bulk mode but it is no big deal.

You may find that your converter is adequate for your style and much faster than your 6A charger unless you want to get your charging done in much less time.

Dick

Been there, done that, with the Honda Eu1000I generator, which in your case, is the limiting power factor here, the weakest link.

You really need 14.8 volts, period. The Progressive Dynamics 9245 at 45 amps, runs fine on the Honda EU1000i, but it runs to 14.4V with the pendulum added. It's amps drop off quickly, but it will make the little Honda work pretty hard up front, so warm the generator up first, before plugging it in and running it in regular mode for a bit before plugging in the charge controller.

A better option would be the Iota DLS30 with the IQ4 smart controller, which will give you 14.8 Volts in bulk mode.
No matter how you slice it, when you are running on a generator, to a limit, about 14.8 to 15V.... Voltage with a modicum of amps pushed behind it, is what it takes to save generator run time, without overloading the generator.

Almot wrote:
No offense. Answers contradict because the question is unclear.

I respectfully disagree. He mentioned a pair of group 27s. Chances that he meant a pair of 6V group 27s are slim to none.

He also said he was using a manual charger, not a converter.

I agree with Mex. Voltage is king, here. You can hit them with a giga-amp charger that's fully voltage regulated to 14.8 or thereabouts and the bank and regulator will quickly turn that big charger into a little pu$$ycat. (rv.net forced the dollar signs. Bad word? Try and tell that to Sylvester.)

Now if you plug in an industrial, 100A, unregulated, manual charger... well then you'd be well served not to saunter inside to take a long nap.

Oasis,

From what I saw, there's still a pretty fair consensus. Your 6A are being split into 3 per battery. Or put another way, in parallel, your pair of 27s gives you the equivalent of one 200A battery and you're feeding it a mere 6A. A couple a' hamsters in a cage could probably charge the bank faster... especially if you're USING any 12V power at the same time.

And when in doubt, Mex is like a our Ockham's Razor; the Mex answer is usually the correct one.

More points...

If you don't plan to upgrade the genny...

If you want a portable charger, the Black & Decker being discussed is the most respected unit on these and other boards for the job at hand. AND... they are discontinued. Get 'em while they last. Just be prepared to replace the fan somewhere down the road. No biggie.

I have the 25A version. It is easily my all time favorite portable charger.

If you want a converter, then maybe the PD 9245 is your best choice... if it fits. You need one that will draw no more than about 80% of that generator's rated power.

http://www.bestconverter.com/9200-Series-Deck-Mount_c_84.html

Also bear in mind that you may need to upgrade your converter's wiring to get the best performance out of any upgraded converter.

The stock Black & Decker has the best charging algorithm we've ever come across and will be the fastest (safe) 40A charger you will find. And it has other cool modes like pulse conditioning and a very sweet and relatively safe equalizing mode. If someone could figure out how to make a converter out of it... well... they'd probably lose money, but... they'd make a number of savvy, boondocker geeks very happy, at least.
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