2 12 volt batterys or 2 6 volt
what gives me the most bang for my money. every other rig that I have bought always had 6 volt battery's but the new one has 2 12 volt. not sure what works better.
Forum Discussion
pnichols wrote:
red31 wrote:
... are thicker plates 'easier' to recover from neglect/abuse?
The 6-volter guys always bring up the "thicker plates" defense against the 12-volter guys.
Taken at face value this is seems to make sense, but it's actually a misleading defense. 6 volt batteries MUST HAVE and BETTER HAVE thicker plates if they're going to last as long as 12 volt batteries. That's because 6 volt batteries carry twice the current per cell as 12 volt batteries carry per cell.
The caveat in my statement above of course is "all other things being equal". The 6 volt versus 12 volt discussion is rarely comparing what it should be comparing ... 6 volt apples to 12 volt apples. For instance, what should be compared is 6 volt flooded deep cycle batteries to 12 volt flooded deep cycle batteries. :)
Battery life is an endless debate as there are too many variables.. Just because I get "X" amount of years out mine doesn't mean that you with your different usage will do the same... You will do better or worse,,,maybe by a lot.
But we don't need to have this debate. If you go to the Trojan website where they have done controlled testing of all of the types of batteries they make... They have the true unbiased answers there.
Trojan doesn't really care which type of battery you buy, just so long as it's one of theirs. So I believe what I read on their charts which lists all the batteries they make. And since this isn't rocket science, those same basic principles will apply to like batteries of other makes as well.johnm1 wrote:
To the people who keep saying close this thread and other non-constructive comments ... please stop.
I'm learning a heck of a lot from the back and forth discussions here. Yes, it can be confusing and yes, some seem to be quite passionate about what they like and don't like. Peoples opinions differ on most everything in life.
However, we're picking up our new rig in the spring and I want to add solar. I also want to purchase the proper batteries for my anticipated usage. Since the costs are to high to do everything at once, it's going to be built in stages so I'm learning what batteries might be best for MY situation ... which is ~50/50 dry vs power pedestal. The dry can be for 1 to 2 weeks at a time (with some shade) hence the need for more battery storage and/or solar. I have "quite" generators that can run everything but that's a hassle (hey, I'm camping) and they bother me with the noise so it must bother our camping neighbors too.
Thanks,
John
Are you capable of using the search function?
If you see that beating a dead horse is not achieving results you can always:
1. Buy a stronger whip.
2. Change riders.
3. Say things like, "This is the way we have always ridden this horse."
4. Appoint a committee to study the horse.
5. Arrange to visit other sites to see how they ride dead horses.
6. Increase the standards to ride dead horses.
7. Appoint a tiger team to revive the dead horse.
8. Create a training session to increase our riding ability.
9. Compare the state of dead horses in today's environment.
10. Change the requirements declaring that "This horse is not dead."
11. Hire contractors to ride the dead horse.
12. Harness several dead horses together for increased speed.
13. Declare, "No horse is too dead to beat."
14. Provide additional funding to increase the horse's performance.
15. Do a Cost Analysis study to see if contractors can ride it cheaper.
16. Purchase a product to make dead horses run faster.
17. Declare the horse is "better, faster and cheaper" dead.
18. Form a quality circle to find uses for dead horses.
19. Revisit the performance requirements for horses.
20. Say this horse was procured with cost as an independent variable.
21. Promote the dead horse to a supervisory position.- To the people who keep saying close this thread and other non-constructive comments ... please stop.
I'm learning a heck of a lot from the back and forth discussions here. Yes, it can be confusing and yes, some seem to be quite passionate about what they like and don't like. Peoples opinions differ on most everything in life.
However, we're picking up our new rig in the spring and I want to add solar. I also want to purchase the proper batteries for my anticipated usage. Since the costs are to high to do everything at once, it's going to be built in stages so I'm learning what batteries might be best for MY situation ... which is ~50/50 dry vs power pedestal. The dry can be for 1 to 2 weeks at a time (with some shade) hence the need for more battery storage and/or solar. I have "quite" generators that can run everything but that's a hassle (hey, I'm camping) and they bother me with the noise so it must bother our camping neighbors too.
Thanks,
John pnichols wrote:
red31 wrote:
... are thicker plates 'easier' to recover from neglect/abuse?
The 6-volter guys always bring up the "thicker plates" defense against the 12-volter guys.
Taken at face value this is seems to make sense, but it's actually a misleading defense. 6 volt batteries MUST HAVE and BETTER HAVE thicker plates if they're going to last as long as 12 volt batteries. That's because 6 volt batteries carry twice the current per cell as 12 volt batteries carry per cell.
The caveat in my statement above of course is "all other things being equal". The 6 volt versus 12 volt discussion is rarely comparing what it should be comparing ... 6 volt apples to 12 volt apples. For instance, what should be compared is 6 volt flooded deep cycle batteries to 12 volt flooded deep cycle batteries. :)
TRUE THAT,,,, but don't forget that when you do that comparison to disclose the PRICE of the 12 volt flooded deep cycle batteries vs the 6 volts... That sort of ends the debate for most people.pnichols wrote:
For clarity, draw a diagram of two 6 volt batteries (showing three cells in each battery) in series making of up a 220 amp hour bank. Then draw a diagram of two 12 volt batteries (showing six cells in each battery) in parallel making up a 220 amp hour bank. It will then be clear that each 6 volt battery cell has to generate - day in and day out - twice the current of each 12 volt battery cell.
I'll bet that the plate mass of each cell per amp of current created is about the same for both apples-to-apples battery types ... given equal quality of construction. If that is close to the situation, then I'll further bet that the 6 volt battery plates - since they're creating twice the current for each cell - BETTER be thicker so as to have twice the mass so that their overall erosion life-span equals that of the thinner 12 volt plates that create one-half as much current.
I would suggest that the 6V plates are wider, with 2x the surface area of the 12V plates, thus conducting 2X the current. The thickness/density can be the same.
I find it hard to digest that two high quality 220 amp hours each, 72 pounds each, 6 volt deep cycle batteries will intrinsically outlast two high quality 110 amp hours each, 72 pounds each, 12 volt deep cycle batteries.
One need not jump to a conclusion based on what is commonly stated by others. It merely takes some head-scratch thinking about what most likely has to be going on with chemistry, currents, and materials. I'm not advocating that the situation is ONLY plate mass dependent - just that the situation is MOSTLY plate mass dependent.
I would agree. Unless there's some inherent, large advantage in having fewer, larger cells, the argument should not be between 6V vs 12V batteries. But between plate thickness/density (longevity) versus total plate surface area (high C.A., less V drop under load).
EDIT: or rather as Mex later points out: hard, dense paste plates vs the more porous, soft plates in Marine/RV batteries
It just so happens that most 12V batteries are Marine/RV and so tend to have lower longevity but higher C.A. and less V drop under load. If autos/boats still used 6V starting motors, and 6V starting (or marine/RV) batteries were still available, the issue might be clearer.NinerBikes wrote:
This is an asinine generalization. There are many good performing "true deep cycle" batteries that are described by Group size.
You should NEVER compare car jars, or any battery that has a "Group" in the description or naming of it... 24, 27, 29, 31, etc, to a true deep cycle battery used in traction devices, sweepers, or golf carts, or as used by some in true dry camping /boondocking non pedestal plugging in camping where you don't pay to park or hookup.MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Well.
Yer gonna find out. Whichever works best for you is the Smart Choice. You already have experience with 3-cell GC220 batteries. Compare then judge.
Out of 11 pages this has got to be the best response to the OP question.- My understanding is that a higher plate surface area reduces voltage drop for a given load.
So for a fixed amount of lead, you can go either for dense plates and long life times (like GC2s), or thin, multiple plates with more surface area that can generate more current with less voltage drop (like marine/rv). Or you can compromise somewhere in between.
The no compromise solution is to have lots of lead, enough so you can have both, dense plates and lots of surface area (6-8 GC2s for example). Long life and little V sag under load. - For clarity, draw a diagram of two 6 volt batteries (showing three cells in each battery) in series making of up a 220 amp hour bank. Then draw a diagram of two 12 volt batteries (showing six cells in each battery) in parallel making up a 220 amp hour bank. It will then be clear that each 6 volt battery cell has to generate - day in and day out - twice the current of each 12 volt battery cell.
I'll bet that the plate mass of each cell per amp of current created is about the same for both apples-to-apples battery types ... given equal quality of construction. If that is close to the situation, then I'll further bet that the 6 volt battery plates - since they're creating twice the current for each cell - BETTER be thicker so as to have twice the mass so that their overall erosion life-span equals that of the thinner 12 volt plates that create one-half as much current.
I find it hard to digest that two high quality 220 amp hours each, 72 pounds each, 6 volt deep cycle batteries will intrinsically outlast two high quality 110 amp hours each, 72 pounds each, 12 volt deep cycle batteries.
One need not jump to a conclusion based on what is commonly stated by others. It merely takes some head-scratch thinking about what most likely has to be going on with chemistry, currents, and materials. I'm not advocating that the situation is ONLY plate mass dependent - just that the situation is MOSTLY plate mass dependent. - It isn't simply THICKER. Add denser plate paste.
My Duck L'Orange tastes better than your Pate d'fois gras.
You guys must be a real riot when talking politics.
