I'm toying with the idea of getting an electric car. However, electricity in Ontario is so expensive I suspect electric is more expensive than gasoline.All the talk of solar and inverters in this forum got me wondering about using that technology for the car and (as my mind drifted) for the S&B.I know there are 240V inverters as that's what most of the world uses except they're 50hz. Some inverters says they're stackable to increase output and some say you can stack and make 240V. I need 240V for my well pump. My clothes dryer is also 240V but if I go down this road I'll convert it to propane. The most power hungry appliance we have is our hot tub: 60A 240V. It is programmable to reduce the maximum load to 20A.I understand the need for a lot of solar and a lot of battery and that it's not cost effective just to run an electric car. I have plenty of room for solar and the $$ just might break even when I eventually sell the house.Thoughts on the technology? I know about Tesla Powerwall but their site is very short on details.

Power wall makes no financial sense if you have lots of space.8 12 volt 105 pound telecom tower "take out" jars have the same usable capacity as the power wall and cost about $125 each plus tax.There are plenty of 240 volt 60 cycle output inverters. Some of them are hybrid units.Outback makes stackable units so you could start small and grow the system over a period of time.Cost of running an electric car is about 1/4 of using gasoline. What does cost is the initial purchase price.Ontario used to have a great "buy back" power scheme for grid tied solar. Unless you insist on redundancy (i.e. power during outages) that is going to be the cheapest route to follow, with a small grid tied inverter on each panel. Again that means you can add modules over a period of time (even years).

I would recommend you chat with actual off-grid experienced Ontario folk who have already worn the numers off the keys if calculators performing innumerable calculations with actual real latitude experience. Start off realizing you are going to need grid panel towers with tracking. Attempting to reinvent the wheel can be both costly and discouraging.

joebedford wrote:I'm toying with the idea of getting an electric car. However, electricity in Ontario is so expensive I suspect electric is more expensive than gasoline.How about post your local fuel and electric rates.Depending on the vehicle and driving style you should get about 4 miles per kWh.Does the utility allow net metering? Is there any TOU (time of use) rate schedules available?Have you talked to a solar installer? You should.

Is the goal to power the car or the entire house from the Sun?Power the car, sure, power the house, did you win the lotto? If so, what's the problem?$30,000 to 50,000 for a solar system will buy a lot of gasoline! Ontario isn't the deserts of California, Nevada or Arizona... I imagine the weather is quite similar to that of Michigan, and Michigan is not a solar friendly state. The government / NASA has researched and confirmed this - we just don't get enough sun. Somewhere there's a map from NASA or maybe NOAA that shows the line cutting through North America, showing where solar makes sense and where it doesn't. I know the line is well south of Michigan.Solar works for an RV because nine out of ten times the occupant(s) seek "fair weather". They're not living off their solar system in Northern North America in the deep of winter where you get six hours of sun every ten to fourteen days. Campers have the ability to track the sun, when it gets cold and dark, the move south where's not cold and dark :)

FYI our latest monthly (July) Ontario Hydro bill (Canadian $ and ¢) :Electricity: On-Peak: 24.3420 kWh @ 18.0000 ¢ $4.38Electricity: Mid-Peak: 28.4262 kWh @ 13.2000 ¢ $3.75Electricity: Off-Peak: 79.5960 kWh @ 8.7000 ¢ $6.92Delivery $52.97Regulatory Charges $1.13HST (87086-5821-RT0001) $8.99Total of your electricity charges $78.14The actual electricity charges are pretty small. The biggest part is Delivery and Taxes (HST).But then we don't use much electricity compared to some: no A/C.We do use more in the winter.

24/48V DC to 120/240V AC inverter? | Good Sam Community

27 Replies

pianotuna
Nomad III
Aug 25, 2016
Hi Smk,

I'm not against LI batteries. I'm against the power wall which is quite expensive per watt, and then requires an equally expensive inverter.

Balquon batteries are a heck of a lot cheaper because a single cell can be 200 amps.

The other issue is lead acid needing to be fully charged. The acceptance rate drops off--exactly where I'm not sure for AGM telecom surplus acid. Regular lead acid it is 85% and 12.5 amps per 100 amp-hours of battery.

I can say I'm observing much more efficient charging from the telecom AGM jars I had installed a year ago.

It is too bad there is not a workable affordable super capacitor.

smkettner wrote:
pianotuna wrote:
8 12 volt 105 pound telecom tower "take out" jars have the same usable capacity as the power wall and cost about $125 each plus tax.
Trouble is the long slow absorption rate for lead acid. These batteries will not capture all the solar like lithium can while the sun shines. You would need enough capacity to remain in bulk the entire time to collect all the solar. Then the life is cut short due to undercharging.
John___Angela
Explorer
Aug 25, 2016
We changed all the lights in the house to LED when we got our electric car. Honestly I have never figured out if that would be enough to offset the electricity the car uses (really don't care) but for the most part we don't really notice any increase in our power bill as a result of the car. Having said that we only do about 7000 to 8000 KM a year in the car so "filling it up two or three times a week seems to be adequate. It is our go to car and we don't use the diesel much anymore. Our electric is a little commuter car so not a lot of range. The most we have ever gone is 150 Km and there was about 8 percent left in the battery. We usually charge at around the 100 KM point. We don't have a costco in this town so we go to a neighboring city. About 110 KM round trip. We usually opportunity charge there at a public charger while we are shopping but for themost part we rarely use public charging. Only you can decide it it is worth it from the gas saving point of view. Hard to say for us. Doesn't matter really. Once you have driven an electric car you are ruined for anything else. The driving experience is superior to any gas or diesel burner...in our opinion anyway. Amazing power, agility, dead quiet, way fun. We did our annual maintenance last month....which consisted of topping up the washer fluid. I still have half a jug for next years maintenance. :) No belts, no hoses, no oil, no oil filters, no fuel filters. etc etc.

Electric cars are not for everyone's lifestyle or needs, but they work for us. We'll stretch our little diesels life out till 2018 and then replace it with a Nissan Leaf. Tesla is out of my budget.
time2roll
Nomad
Aug 24, 2016
pianotuna wrote:
8 12 volt 105 pound telecom tower "take out" jars have the same usable capacity as the power wall and cost about $125 each plus tax.
Trouble is the long slow absorption rate for lead acid. These batteries will not capture all the solar like lithium can while the sun shines. You would need enough capacity to remain in bulk the entire time to collect all the solar. Then the life is cut short due to undercharging.
pianotuna
Nomad III
Aug 24, 2016
Hi Joe,

Try your local Interstate store.

joebedford wrote:
pianotuna wrote:
8 12 volt 105 pound telecom tower "take out" jars have the same usable capacity as the power wall and cost about $125 each plus tax.
I know somebody said they were going cheap out in California, but is there a source in the GWN? (preferably east of Regina :)
mkirsch
Nomad II
Aug 24, 2016
Bolt, or Volt?

I've ridden in a Chevy Volt a couple times, and I'm pretty big myself. Had no issues with room.
joebedford
Nomad II
Aug 24, 2016
pianotuna wrote:
8 12 volt 105 pound telecom tower "take out" jars have the same usable capacity as the power wall and cost about $125 each plus tax.
I know somebody said they were going cheap out in California, but is there a source in the GWN? (preferably east of Regina :)
joebedford
Nomad II
Aug 24, 2016
smkettner wrote:
If the size of the Bolt works for you that should be a great car.
We have a VW GTI now and it's pretty small. I'm a big guy but once in, there's room. The question for the Bolt (or any other vehicle we might consider) is if I can get in and out easily.
time2roll
Nomad
Aug 24, 2016
If the size of the Bolt works for you that should be a great car.
time2roll
Nomad
Aug 24, 2016
joebedford wrote:
Me OP: My July/August Ontario Hydro bill is a lot different from the other poster's bill:

Electricity: On-Peak: 205.9032 kWh at 18.0000 cents $37.06
Electricity: Mid-Peak: 164.0004 kWh at 13.2000 cents $21.65
Electricity: Off-Peak: 1,151.1006 kWh at 8.7000 cents $100.15
Delivery $108.06
Regulatory Charges $10.07
Debt Retirement Charge++ $0.00
HST (87086-5821-RT0001) $36.01
Total of your electricity charges $313.00
++ Debt Retirement Charge exemption saved you $10.65

Some of the transmission is based on adjusted usage not the full kWh so the formula is incomplete but not that difficult.

Marginal cost is 5 to 6 cents more than the 8.7 direct off-peak.
Call it 5.3 and you are at 14 cents for a marginal cost calculation.

14 / 6.43 + 20% is 2.61 Canadian cents per KM

AAA says a Camry costs 10.79 cents per KM for gasoline at $1.24 per liter.

too lazy to convert...
joebedford
Nomad II
Aug 23, 2016
smkettner wrote:
What car are you getting? May want to read on mynissanleaf.com as the discussion is very extensive.
Thinking about a Bolt because the DW wants a backup in case we run out of juice.