A report on using Lithium batteries in an MH for 3.5 years.

reed cundiff wrote:
Have posted before. We are at 2.5 years with our LFP system. Have had no hiccups.

System is approximately 9 kW-hrs and is composed of four batteries, each battery is composed of 4 x 180 amp-hr 3.4 V (nominal) CALB (Chinese Aviation Lithium Battery) cells. The four batteries are in series for a 48 V (nominal system). The battery suite, battery management system etc were purchased from Manzanita Micro and installed by our son. There are 1.4 kW of panels

We have lasted six to seven days in heavy rain forest (Olympic Peninsula) with no problems. Just changed energy/power management and did not run inverter except when required.

We are currently on the beach about 20 km north of Tulum. There is line power available and we have used it three times in last two weeks to charge batteries when it rained all day and we neglected to turn off inverter when we went to bed/or decided to run the Dometic air conditioner (it takes 2200 W) after dark. We were down -6500 W-hrs the next morning. We are in shade of coconut palms until around noon and have still harvested 5000 W-hrs on sunny days down here. Meximum every was around 8500 W-hrs in mid-summer when we ran fridge and hot water all day.

Reed and Elaine

Thats kinda cool. Thanks for the report. We have a 17.7 KWH battery in our electric vehicle. Who knows. Maybe when the vehicle part of the vehicle is dead in 15 years I'll recyle my battery into my RV at the time. At the present rate of decay for these batteries it will probably still have north of 14KW. Then to make it fit. :)

Have posted before. We are at 2.5 years with our LFP system. Have had no hiccups.

System is approximately 9 kW-hrs and is composed of four batteries, each battery is composed of 4 x 180 amp-hr 3.4 V (nominal) CALB (Chinese Aviation Lithium Battery) cells. The four batteries are in series for a 48 V (nominal system). The battery suite, battery management system etc were purchased from Manzanita Micro and installed by our son. There are 1.4 kW of panels

We have lasted six to seven days in heavy rain forest (Olympic Peninsula) with no problems. Just changed energy/power management and did not run inverter except when required.

We are currently on the beach about 20 km north of Tulum. There is line power available and we have used it three times in last two weeks to charge batteries when it rained all day and we neglected to turn off inverter when we went to bed/or decided to run the Dometic air conditioner (it takes 2200 W) after dark. We were down -6500 W-hrs the next morning. We are in shade of coconut palms until around noon and have still harvested 5000 W-hrs on sunny days down here. Meximum every was around 8500 W-hrs in mid-summer when we ran fridge and hot water all day.

Reed and Elaine

Batteries on submarines are a different universe - such as unlimited budget, the spectre of chlorine gas and SIZE. A nuc sounds like something huge but only the Virginia Class attack vessels do not employ enlisted hot-bunking. The newer Sea Wolf class had to return to hot bunking.

Don't know about anyone else but I don't have a billion dollar budget. Nor would I employ any battery bank as an EMERGENCY BACK UP like those nuc submarine batteries would be. Exide Limited, INDIA, is today's PRIME VENDOR for conventional submersible flooded lead acid batteries.

At least a thousand REAL WORLD examples of full term RV use would be needed to establish a baseline. Folks grouse about "Whaddya mean I simply can't push a button and walk away?" kWh rendered in full lifespan data needs to be collected. You can bet your butt manufacturers like Tesla and vendors of submarine batteries worth more than your lifetime"s earnings employ automatic management systems that for instance intrinsictly know lithium idiosynchrosies and bow to them.

A realistic number of real world RV examples is needed. A new style battery - one that costs as much as lithium will not be plug and play entertained. My gut hunch is that this technology DEMANDS more auto control to maximize highly touted service life. This needs to be ironed out. Tesla can afford a CPU to do this. Can you?

The proof will be X number of full lifespan RV USE examples. I provided quite a number of proofed examples that did not agree with vendor expectations. Lithium is far too expensive to relegate to novelty status. I keepbsaying this --- Time Will Tell.

Here's a link to another article
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/lifepo4_on_boats

Lithium technology has certainly matured, the US Navy has started to remove all the (conventional) "wet-cell" (lead acid) batteries from submarines and replace them with Lithium batteries

I am surprised he did not go at least 24 volt.

Compare with Tesla Powerwall 7kWh for $3,000.

Good report.

When comparing automobiles, a 600 series Mercedes should not go head-to-head with a Ford Crown Victoria.

Thusly to be fair, the lithium units should have been squared off with Lifeline, which charge significantly faster than lesser AGM batteries. The higher initial charge acceptance must be taken advantage of. My 31 CEF allows a 103 ampere initial rate. Dinking around with 20-amperes charge rate coupled with a finite number of daily solar hours skews the bias much in favor of lithium.

Reality rules and badly trumps hypothesis. The total kWh of activity associated with total battery lifespan is a primary element. The COST generator wise including fuel, maintenance, and lifespan enters the picture.

The cost of lithium batteries MUST include the management system to protect life and property. Was the battery management system totalled into the price of the batteries?

It is significant that a realization of 85% filled capacity (ampere hours) may have a positive effect on total lifespan. But this means for each dollar spent fifteen percent will not be used I.E. a 1000 AH bank in reality is a 850 AH bank.

A significant number of reality scenarios have to be entertained before a cognizant summation can filter down. Products that do well in limited consumer tests can end up superior ordinary or utter failures. A larger user database is need. An example of one must be heeded as such.

When several hundred examples have expended their useful or useless lifespans then a rational summation can be derived. A test is one thing, a list of observed functional characteristics quite another.

This may seem somewhat harsh to some folks. In reality it is reality. Having spent a good portion of my career testing and evaluating batteries for OEM and customers my outlook must be greatly tempered. If a convincing majority percentage "live" X number of kWh and maintain 80% capacity rating then that is inarguable evidence. If cost per kWh was more competitive with a quality AGM battery then such a critical eye would be unfair. But it isn't. And careful scrutiny must be employed. Emotional enthusiasm cannot vie with cold hard facts. Those facts are missing. Time will tell.

Moved from technology

Thanks, very good reading.